18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 16, 2017 5:23 PM by Randy Miller

    Relative views - projected vs true dimensions

    Geoff Johnstone

      We are using relative views to detail individual plates of a multibody weldment.

      Sometimes the inserted view has projected dimensions, and sometimes true.  I cannot figure out what is triggering SW to use projected or true.

      We are using SW2014

       

      Does anyone know what the triggers are for a relative view to select projected or true.

       

      Thanks Geoff

        • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
          Mike Price

          Bumping this thread.  I'm really surprised not to see an answer on this.  This "feature" has caused parts to be erroneously manufactured I know for a fact.  SW should ALWAYS default to projected and never to true dimensions for 2D drawings.

           

          Does anyone know more about this?

            • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
              Mike Price

              It's disconcerting that nobody (especially from SW) addressed this post.  Why SW would ever default to true dimensions for views that are clearly orthogonal on a 2d drawing is clearly a result of not understanding drawings.

               

              SW, do the right thing here and chime in please.

               

              Not everyone uses the software with default orientations for 2d drawings........

               

              I understand that you have to double check your settings in 2d, but sometimes that is overlooked.  How about providing one single reason for defaulting to something that could cost companies thousands of dollars in lost hardware?

                • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                  John Stoltzfus

                  Must be going at this blindly, but why would someone design something that's not projected?? With the basis of the design off of or related to any of the (3) three main planes...

                   

                  Are you saying that if you design a pc that isn't 100% parallel with any of the planes you would want SolidWorks to turn it accordingly so it's projection is correct...

                   

                  Enlighten me, I'm pretty dense on this..

                    • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                      Mike Price

                      The original post is still unanswered with regards to what triggers SW to use dimensions that are view vs projected.

                       

                       

                      But to answer your question John, If I have a multibody part for which I am creating drawings of individual bodies, or another example would be designing a part incontext to another part that for which I would like to use a common origin, but the orientation of the part is not in line with the standard views.

                       

                      If I have the part oriented like so

                       

                       

                      I would then update the standard views by grabbing two orthogonal faces and then setting the view normal to those.

                       

                       

                       

                      Every now and again, SW will default the view to "True" dimensions.  You would never want true dimensions for 2d drawing views (that I can think of), but sometimes SW will select True dimensions.....

                       

                       

                      "Are you saying that if you design a pc that isn't 100% parallel with any of the planes you would want SolidWorks to turn it accordingly so it's projection is correct..."

                       

                      No, I will orient it as I want to do so.

                       

                      So....the part that causes me to take the time here is below.  This is the standard orientation of the part

                       

                       

                      I set it to this orientation which is a "perfect" front view looking directly perpendicular to the face and having all 90 deg edges either vertical or horizontal

                       

                       

                      My resulting drawing

                       

                       

                      But oops, SW decided to turn on "True" dimensions for only the top view for whatever reason.

                      12-14-2016 4-28-58 PM.jpg

                       

                      Just in case you don't know the diff, the true dimensions are always wrong in the case of projected geometry like this.  Here is the drawing with some actual dimensions and you can see how ridiculous this would be to ever be allowed in a 2D drawing without explicitly being selected.  Green dims are obviously correct.  Reds are not.  How could this be allowed.......ever.

                       

                      Thanks a lot SW for almost killing my part during manufacturing.  Only thing that saves me from this is the fact that the vendor had a parasolid.

                        • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                          Mike Price

                          Glad to see SW is on top of this........really guys?

                          • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                            Dan Pihlaja

                            I thought that there was a toggle somewhere for turning on "true" dimensions (edit: I meant to add "by default"), but I can't find it, so maybe it never existed.

                            Question:

                            If you were to open your templates for your drawings, are there views already there?

                            (the reason that I ask, is that if you create a template with front, top and left views, then when you use that template to create a drawing from a part, it inserts the front, top and left views from that part automatically when the drawing is created).

                             

                            If so, then in your template, are the "true" dimension toggles selected in any of the view?

                              • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                                Mike Price

                                Hi Dan,

                                 

                                It is somehow toggling on itself...My template doesn't have predefined views.

                                 

                                It is easy enough to turn off, but when you chugging through things.  I think SW should be somewhat embarrassed however that I am able to create the drawing like this.  True dims should at least be a different font or something that I have to try to make look like everything else.  How about giant purple font?

                                 

                                  • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                                    Logan Pegler

                                    Hi Mike,

                                     

                                    Have you worked through this issue with your VAR and got them to report an SPR to the SolidWorks Development team?

                                    "Bugs" raised on the forum would never be "fixed" because it is not the right place to determine whether it is truly a bug in the software or not.

                                     

                                    The lack of replies suggests more that nobody else is experiencing the issue so it is more likely an issue on your end like a corrupt template or user settings. Your VAR can help you troubleshoot this and help resolve it.

                                      • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                                        Mike Price

                                        Hey Logan,

                                         

                                        Geoff had the issue as well (original post).  All 7 users here at the company I work for experience this as well.  I had not looked at this as a bug necessarily.

                                         

                                        Dimensions in drawings are either:

                                        • True. Accurate model values.
                                        • Projected. 2D dimensions.

                                        The dimension type is set when you insert a drawing view. You can view and change the dimension type in drawing view PropertyManagers.The rules for dimension type are:

                                        • SolidWorks specifies Projected type dimensions for standard and custom orthogonal views and True type dimensions for isometric, dimetric, and trimetric views.
                                        • If you create a projected or auxiliary view from another view, the new view uses Projected type dimensions, even if the original view used True type dimensions.

                                         

                                        Because we are off the standard planes due to working with airfoil geometry that is modeled off of engine centerline, we are often creating parts that in no way line up with the standard views.  We have to then update the standard views for drawing purposes.  Sometimes SW is flipping the dimensions to True, even though we are not bringing in an iso/dimetric/trimetric view, so maybe it is a but, but I would lean towards no.  However, I think you are right about getting my VAR involved. 

                                         

                                        Thanks

                                          • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                                            Logan Pegler

                                            Hi Mike,

                                             

                                            You seem to have a pretty well rounded knowledge in how the dimensions are created (or maybe its in the help files, I really haven't looked into it that far). Probably from trying to find an answer as to why it is happening I'm sure.

                                            If you had 7 people at your company with the same issue then it is probably a big time waster/cost from rework, so I would definitely get your VAR involved. That is what you pay them for after all.

                                            For a company critical issue you are really going to get what you pay for for help comparing the forum to a reseller, in my opinion. Though the forum is a great source of resource for getting assistance with modelling problems etc.

                                          • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                                            Rick Becker

                                            Logan Pegler wrote:

                                             

                                             

                                            The lack of replies suggests more that nobody else is experiencing the issue so it is more likely an issue on your end like a corrupt template or user settings. Your VAR can help you troubleshoot this and help resolve it.

                                             

                                            Logan,

                                             

                                            I could not agree with this statement in any way, shape or form.

                                             

                                            I also have had this "bug" happen to me. There is probably an SPR with my name on it. Still nothing will get fixed.

                                             

                                            I just typed this in reply to John Stoltzfus on another thread...

                                            We (the everyday users) stop complaining as soon as we develop a work flow that works around an obvious bug/flaw/shortcoming.

                                             

                                            You, me and a lot of other users have painfully (by losing a lot of work)
                                            have discovered this shortcoming and then either asked someone or
                                            figured out on our own how to overcome the problem. Since there is a
                                            work around, and we are proud to share it, Dassault does not fix the bug
                                            (really what else can it be called).

                                             

                                            It's an uphill battle. Soldier on.

                                             

                                            Logan, I hope you can see my point here.

                                              • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                                                Logan Pegler

                                                Hi Rick,

                                                 

                                                If there are over 3million SWX users worldwide, and 10 people (those on this thread) experience the issue, and 1 of them reports it. What do you think the chances of that bug being fixed are?

                                                Even if the bug is obvious, if no one reports it as an issue, why would DS dedicate time and resource into resolving it if the effect on end users is seemingly nothing.

                                                As a company who services millions of users, DS has to prioritize what affects the majority of customers, even if that one issue seems like a deal breaker to an individual user. I report bugs from end users daily, and for those with multiple hits we do often see a resolution in a future service pack. On a global scale I think DS do a pretty damn good job at fixing bugs. I hope you do keep reporting issues you find.

                                • Re: Relative views - projected vs true dimensions
                                  Mark Peterson

                                  Hey, everyone! I wanted to offer some help on this and hopefully get a global setting in SW implemented.

                                   

                                  If you login to MySolidWorks or the Customer Portal and search the Knowledge Base for "true projected" you'll find several results that describe this behavior and its intent such as S-00825:

                                   

                                  Depending on whether or not the view was created by a standard orthographic projection or a user defined named view or rotated view (isometric, dimetric, or trimetric), the "dimension type" for that view will be set to either "Projected" or "True (isometric)". If the projection type is set to "True (isometric)" then all dimensions will be measured based on the three dimensional size of the object...

                                   

                                  So that makes sense - but not for everyone. It would be great if we could have a global setting that defines this behavior. You could call your VAR to ask them to send in an Enhancement Request on your behalf. You could also search already existing ERs yourself through the Customer Portal. Use the same search term, "true projected", and you'll see several applicable ERs: 542976, 1015434, 757503, 37194, 26038, and 641662. Vote for all of them. Then have everyone you know vote for them.

                                   

                                  Edit: I've heard from several SOLIDWORKS sources that it doesn't take 100's of votes to get an ER sent to the top of the list - just a few dozen. If we each get 2 of our co-workers to vote on these we might have a chance of seeing this in SW2019 Beta!

                                   

                                  Edit again: corrected the first ER "542976" nice catch Randy, thanks!