7 Replies Latest reply on May 29, 2015 9:09 AM by Jason Capriotti

    Automatic State Change upon Check Out?

    Frederic Hodshon

      Hi again.


      it's me.


      I have been asked to investigate whether a file check out can trigger a transition to another state.


      specifically, from APPROVED through PRODUCTION TO CONCEPT CHANGE to CONCEPT.


      see below:



        • Re: Automatic State Change upon Check Out?
          Michael Dekoning

          No. A file must be checked in for it to transition to another state.

          • Re: Automatic State Change upon Check Out?
            Jim Sculley

            No, you cannot change the state of a file that is checked out.  That would be doing things in exactly opposite the manner in which EPDM is supposed to be used.  Files in the Approved state should be considered unchangeable (no check out allowed).  To make changes, you should have to take action to move a file to a state where changes are allowed and then check it out.


            Some personal thoughts on workflow states and transitions:


            A.  If you provide numbering on your transition names, you can control the order that they appear in the Change State drop down menus.  For example:

                      1. Preliminary Review

                      2. No Approval Required

                  Even if there is only one transition now, there may be more in the future, so number everything.  Without numbering, the order may change, confusing your users.


            B.  Transition names should reflect the action that takes place when the transition is performed or the reason for the state change (e.g. Submit for Review, Revise, Approve, Reject)


            C. State names should indicate why a file is where it is (e.g. Work In Progress, Approved, Approval Pending, Changes Pending)


            D.  Don't be too skimpy with the number of states/transitions.  Your workflow is missing at least two states and a few transitions that I suspect you will end up adding sooner rather than later.  First, I don't think that files in the Approved state should ever return to the Concept state.  It can't be a concept after it has been approved.  You want a Change Pending state or something.  Second, I would insert  a state between Concept and Preliminary Approval.  Call it Preliminary Approval Pending or something.  The transition to it is something like 'Submit for Approval'.  Leaving that state are transitions (Approve and Reject) that send it along to the next Approval Pending state or back to the Concept state.  This state also gives you an entry point for files moving out of your newly added Change Pending state that are ready to be reviewed.


            I've attached one of my workflows so that you can see some of the things you may not have considered yet.


            Jim S.

              • Re: Automatic State Change upon Check Out?
                Frederic Hodshon

                Thanks Jim.


                Fantastic response.


                I really appreciate all the help while i scramble to get this thing up and running.



                • Re: Automatic State Change upon Check Out?
                  Frederic Hodshon



                  i've been reviewing your workflow.


                  I am currently revamping and starting with the default workflow with the idea of incorporating some of your flow.


                  I am unfamiliar with some of your states:







                  i am assuming these are being routed to external processes and no longer in the EPDM flow?


                  am i close?


                  thanks again,


                    • Re: Automatic State Change upon Check Out?
                      Jim Sculley

                      Those are workflow links.  They allow you to move files from one workflow to a different workflow.  I have a workflow for items we buy and a different workflow for items we make.  Sometimes a user will check a file in before they have selected the correct item type (purchased vs. manufactured) on the data card and files end up in the wrong workflow.  Administrators can use the 'Move Purchased WIP' transition to send files to the Purchased Items workflow.  There is a corresponding link in the Purchased Items workflow to move files to the workflow I posted.


                      The Rejected and Recalled workflows were created to make the above workflow easier to read.  Rather than having 10 transitions feeding into one state and making the workflow very cluttered, the common concepts of rejecting or recalling  a file are moved into separate workflows and the transitions link to those.  I've attached the Rejected and Recalled workflows for you to look at.


                      The idea behind Recall is that sometimes after you submit something for approval but before someone else has reviewed it, you find a problem.  Recall allows to to take the file back and make the necessary changes.  Think of it like dropping a document off on someone's desk and then going back a few minutes later (before they have looked at it) and taking it back.


                      Jim S.

                  • Re: Automatic State Change upon Check Out?
                    Jason Capriotti

                    You can use Dispatch to do the opposite. Transition the file then have it check the file out. We do this for ECO files, the user transitions (Place on ECO) the file, then Dispatch checks the file out to the user. Dispatch is crude but you can even have it prompt for information during the transition and apply it to the data card. You may get an error if they have the file open though.