24 Replies Latest reply on Jan 7, 2018 7:32 AM by Ken W.

    Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?

    Peter Farnham

      Hi All,

      I am looking to upgrade to 2015 ap3 when it becomes available.

      I have some issues in 2014 sp5 where:-

       

      The weld bead will not come through on the drawing views correctly (being looked at by my VAR as they also could not get it to work either)

       

      Weld beads are not taken in account in the weight of the assembly (this is needed in as the welding can add a large amount of weight to the finished assembly)

       

      Used to be able to save the weld bead as a part (no longer available) and add the material specs to the part and so get the weight. it was so easy but now is a nightmare to work with.

       

      How do other get around this limitation of the model not being complete to give the weight? Guess it?

       

       

      Thanks in advance

      Pete

        • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
          ABILASH V.

          2015 What's New in SOLIDWORKS - Weld Beads on Single and Multibody Parts

          Find out the whats new in SolidWorks 2015 , which could clarify your doubts on 2015 version

          • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
            Mark Greenwell

            Hi Peter,

             

            For what it's worth I still think it is very limited.

             

            You have the options to add a mass to the weld bead and have it show in the mass properties but it does not add it to the overall mass.

             

            I cannot figure a way of exporting the wells bead information to excel (which would be very useful) either.

             

            I raised a similar question to yours a few weeks ago.

             

            Couple of screen shots showing a 20mm weld which I have used the default mass of 1kg per meter to show what I mean.

             

            Weight of assembly = 325Kg

             

            Length of weld = 900mm so additional weight would be 900Kg.

             

            So you would expect Mass to be = 325 + 900 = 1225Kg

             

            weight.PNG

             

            weld bead.PNG

             

            weld mass.PNG

             

            Thanks

             

            Mark (SolidWorks 2015) sp2.1

              • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                Peter Farnham

                Hi Mark,

                 

                So much better when you could save the weld bead as a part.

                 

                I am trying to understand Solidworks reasoning for changing this option as it creates more work.

                 

                No improvement then in 2015, I just wish that Solidworks would create a real world environment to test their product in, so that they could see the limitations that they are placing on the user.

                 

                Thank you for the reply

                Pete

                  • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                    Mark Greenwell

                    Hi Peter,

                     

                    It's because of weld beads limited functions that I never use the weld bead, I Just detail the drawings.

                     

                    However if your structure is weight critical then you would expect that any weld added would automatically be added to the total Mass properties.

                     

                    Also I might use it more often if I could export weld information out to excel.

                     

                    I am sure there are plenty of other who feel the same way.

                     

                    Thanks

                     

                    Mark

                      • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                        Peter Farnham

                        Hi mark,

                         

                        So the question is why did they limit the function of the weld beads?

                         

                        Thee weld beads used to be able to be saved as parts but not anymore.

                        On our large 6000mm vessel there is over 50 welds so having to measure each one and calculate the weight is just plain silly now, as before it was easy, especially with the complicated welds.

                         

                        Because we are ASME and PED certified, the inspectors want the correct weights. Air freight wants the correct weights and the architects want the correct weights. I know we can estimate, but it would be better to be correct with little room for mistakes, by having the period in the wrong place  for instance.

                         

                        I hope Solidworks accepts my challenge that I posted to produce a acceptable drawing set, but I doubt they will. lol :-)

                         

                        Regards

                        Pete

                      • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                        Chris Schenkel

                        @Peter Farnham "So much better when you could save the weld bead as a part."

                         

                        True. As I am discovering today, weld beads cannot be communicated or exported into a stp file. Thanks Dassault.  I guess I will have to create models of my welds, hmmm or would it cost less to find new software? 

                    • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                      Huan Yu Hu

                      Hi Peter,

                       

                      Try Fillet Bead, this could help.

                       

                      Regards

                      Huan

                      • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                        Utpal Kumar

                        Hi Pete,

                         

                        The primary intent of SOLIDWORKS Weld bead command is to perform Weld Information Modelling than Weld geometry modelling.

                         

                        That's why its more of a cosmetic feature (i.e no geometry created) which holds the information on How the weld is running on the model (weld path) and what type and size it is (defined in weld annotation) and the prime reasons for doing this is to achieve performance and efficiency in weld documentation.

                        As this is a cosmetic feature we rely on user inputs to define parameters for mass, cost and number of passes required to perform the weld.

                         

                        We do not add add the weld mass by default to the mass of the assemble intentionally as this mass is calculated based on empirical formula and default value set by system may be off by large values in some scenarios while user may not notice it because in several scenarios weld mass is a small fraction to the total assembly weight.

                         

                        Once you define your weld in a 3D Model you can pull its information in a Weld Table in drawing and export it to excel if required.

                         

                        In drawings we support integration of caterpillars , End treatment and weld annotation symbol integration with the weld bead created in 3d Model if you are failing to create any of these symbols then please open a SR with your re-seller.

                         

                        If your intent is not weld information modelling and rather its weld geometry modelling then you have to use solidworks regular feature to model the geometry or you can use fillet bead command in multi-body environment wherever applicable. But even in those scenarios ensure you are appropriate material to each weld body so that correct mass property and cog is calculated.

                         

                        thanks,

                        utpal

                          • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                            Mark Greenwell

                            Hi Utpal,

                             

                            All I will say to this reply is take a look at your competitors and see how they handle welds in an assembly / part.

                             

                            In particular look at how Inventor handles welds and has done for a number of years.

                             

                            No need to add feature models of welds to get the required information, how long would that take on a large assembly?

                             

                            If memory serves me right no need to export a weld table to get information in excel (although I may be mistaken on this as it's been a few years).

                             

                            Anyone who needs the information Peter asked for (i.e. his structures a re weigh critical) who is considering either SolidWorks or Inventor will choose the later.

                             

                            Thanks

                             

                            Mark

                            • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                              Peter Farnham

                              "The primary intent of SOLIDWORKS Weld bead command is to perform Weld Information Modelling than Weld geometry modelling."

                              It used too so is a regression then?

                               

                              it does not show correctly in a drawing so that's another regression because it used too.

                              Filling in the weld bead properties results in incorrect data being returned and so is next to useless.

                               

                              Mass is not added to the assembly so another regression.

                               

                              Question:- how to define weld in assembly? say 4mm fillet weld and a 6mm butt weld so that it shows in the assembly as these type of welds?

                              Why would I need this? Because I have to show the weld preps and the type of welds used in the weld procedure. (check making weld procedure documents).

                               

                              I did raise the issue with my VAR as I have stated previously and they were unable to make any sense of the weld bead properties function.

                               

                              Weld symbols are ok but do not tell the whole story. (weld preparation?)

                               

                              If your are that certain that weld beads work, then do a gotoassist with me and prove to me that they work, with my real life model, without using surfacing.

                               

                              This is the forth time I have asked for this and the first two failed to complete agreeing with my findings and the third failed to respond.

                               

                              Lets get this sorted out and save ourselves some time.

                               

                              Regards

                              Pete

                                • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                                  Utpal Kumar

                                  i am not sure about your this comment

                                   

                                  "Weld symbols are ok but do not tell the whole story. (weld preparation?)"

                                   

                                  i think weld preparation is integral part of weld type definition in a Weld Symbol. Butt, Single-v butt, Single-J butt, Single-V butt with root.... all these define what type of weld preparation is required.

                                   

                                  As far as mass calculation of weld bead is we can certainly enhance solidworks to be better than what we do today without creating the geometry and i will recommend to open a enhancement request for the same.

                                   

                                  Regards,

                                  Utpal

                                    • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                                      Peter Farnham

                                      Utpal,

                                       

                                      Can you please stop all this babble and show me how weld beads in solidworks  help the modeller in a real world situation, because at the moment I can not see how.

                                       

                                      My VAR is unable to show me how either and so there is no progress from the first time I made this post.

                                       

                                      As you were willing to stand up for Solidwork in the beginning, do I take it that you wish you hadn't?

                                       

                                      I repeat " If your are that certain that weld beads work, then do a gotoassist with me and prove to me that they work, with my real life model, without using surfacing."

                                       

                                      I will add that this is also in a real manufacturing environment and so you will see what issues we really have to put up with.

                                       

                                      What are you afraid of?

                                       

                                      BTW

                                      "

                                      i think weld preparation is integral part of weld type definition in a Weld Symbol. Butt, Single-v butt, Single-J butt, Single-V butt with root.... all these define what type of weld preparation is required."

                                       

                                      This statement is wrong, please read more, the weld prep depends on what you are joining together and the codes being used.

                                      That's why you have weld procedures, stating just a fillet weld is not enough.

                                       

                                      To help you lookup nozzles on a pressure vessel. nozzle on top, nozzle through hole flush with shell, nozzle through hole extended. The all require different weld preps to meet code, but all require fillet welds.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Regards

                                      Pete

                                • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                                  Glenn Schroeder

                                  While we're on the subject of weld beads, here's another issue that doesn't make sense to me: Display weld length in drawing?

                                    • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                                      Mark Greenwell

                                      Glenn,

                                       

                                      I have bumped this thread back up as it relates to another thread in which SolidWorks claimed the ER was fixed.

                                       

                                      How can they claim it's fixed when the function is exactly the same, (unless I have missed something)

                                       

                                      If anyone used the weld bead function, what are your thoughts?

                                       

                                      Thanks

                                       

                                      Mark

                                        • Re: Has the weld bead issue been sorted out in 2015?
                                          Ken W.

                                          Attempting to sort out "Weld Mass per Unit Length" in SolidWorks 2016 Premium. Only INTEGER values from 1 to 10E8 are allowed. Why no decimals?

                                           

                                          For example, a 1/4" (45deg) fillet weld yields a volume of weld metal equal to 0.106lbs/ft. Reference: ESAB Handbook - Calculations

                                           

                                          SolidWorks does a nice job calculating the Total Length of the Weld; however, the program falls short in allowing the designer to input the cross-section deposition values based on a given joint geometry.

                                           

                                          In SolidWorks, if you have a 12in weld and the smallest value you can inject into the Weld Mass per Unit Length field is "1", then the result would be 12lbs. The correct answer, in this case, should be 0.106lbs.

                                           

                                          Perhaps we are approaching this feature incorrectly??

                                           

                                          For context, we are a design/fabrication/welding company with an AWS certified welder, Professional Engineer, and AWS CWI (in training). We live and breath fusion welding processes (e.g. SMAW, FCAW-S, FCAW-G, GMAW, GTAW, OxyFuel).

                                           

                                          Recommendation: 1) change the title to "Weight per Foot of Weld Metal", and 2) allow the use of non-integer values as input.