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Very large numbers in Equations

Question asked by J. R. on Mar 26, 2015
Latest reply on Mar 31, 2015 by J. R.

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Hello,

In my model, I need to run some calculations which are then exported to Custom Properties, and then linked to Notes in drawings of that part. This chain of links is working well, but the problem is that some of the numbers exceed three digits (number 1000 and up), and equations can't display that, it says "outside modelers resolution".

How can I work around this limitation? I can't do these calculations in Custom Properties or Notes in drawings, they don't have API for that. Only Equations deal with arithmetic (as far as I know), and I can't make them output numbers above thousand.

Josh Brady Mar 30, 2015 3:41 PM

Correct Answer

Sorry for the "stupid" terminology.... I was just trying to make a point that throwing around that sort of language isn't constructive. However, it appears you have run into what I consider a bug of the the Equations dialog box, not the equation functionality itself. Equations are happy with very large values. I have attached a part model with a global variable whose value is 1.08 million meters. It's more than happy to calculate all the equations that make it up, and also to use those large values in calculating values for geometry that lie within modeler resolution. However, the Equations dialog box will complain if you try to enter or view equations that result in these large values.

There are lots of equations (ones using large numbers, ones that include VBA, etc) that are perfectly valid and work just fine as long as you avoid the "idiot box" that is the Equations dialog. There are a couple of workarounds available to you.

One is to initiate your equations using small dimensions that result in small values. Then, once the equations are all working right, change your small dimensions to big ones from outside the Equations dialog. The >1000 values should calculate just fine.

The other option is to avoid the Equations dialog altogether. For that, you can use the handy macro I've attached that was written by Luke Malpass. Run this macro and you will get a plain text list of all the equations in the model. It won't do any syntax checking, value checking, unit assigning, etc. for you. It's what I used to create the equations in this part file.

As a user of SolidWorks, I'm insulted that the program takes so much upon itself to complain about and refuse to evaluate advanced equations. However, I've not actually needed them for my job, so I haven't bothered to submit a SPR for it. However, it looks like you have a legit use case where you are severely impacted by this bug. That should help elevate the SPR.

Maybe Richard Doyle can forward this info to the usability guy? I forget his name...

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Jamil Snead Mar 26, 2015 11:27 PM

Maybe you can do it in a design table. Excel would be able to handle the equation.

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J. R. @ Jamil Snead on Mar 27, 2015 4:50 AM

Maybe, but design tables aren't updated on rebuild unless you manually open them. I need auto-rebuilding solution.

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Jamil Snead Mar 27, 2015 11:27 AM

Another admittedly undesirable workaround would be to model the part at 1/10 or 1/100 scale and then add a scale feature at the end of the part to bring it up to actual size.

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J. R. @ Jamil Snead on Mar 27, 2015 12:45 PM

Maybe it could have been done at first stages, but now it's too late to re-make it from scratch in scale.

But seriously, is there no decent way to run calculations within SolidWorks that update along with model and don't have such stupid limitations?

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Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 29, 2015 8:45 PM

There is no such limitation that I know of. Can you post your model so we can see the stupid way you've set up your calculations that bumps you into the limits? If you have set up the model such that a dimension is calculated to be over 1km or puts geometry or sketch geometry outside a 1km cube then you will hit the modeler limitation. However, that's actual size. There's not a limit on the number of digits.

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J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 29, 2015 8:59 PM

I'm sorry, I cannot post this, I'm not allowed to share any part of this project (not my choice). I don't understand why you say this is a stupid way; if you know a better one, please tell me.

This project is done in MKS system.

Suffice to say that these calculations result in numbers above 1000. That is intentional. There are no actual sketches or features that extend beyond 1km cube. These calculations are run in Global Variables, so they don't have anything to do with geometry. In further development, it is likely that calculations will return results in six or seven digits. And SW can't even display above 1000m.

I know the obvious solution would be to use centimeters or milimeters instead of meters, but this is how this project is done, and it's too late to change that.

I need to work with what I'm presented.

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Thomas Voetmann @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 1:46 AM

Is your model a part or an assembly? Parts have a dimension limit of 1000 meter. I know from modeling a railroad track once.

Perhaps you could try to change units on your model, and/or do the calculations on some "wrong" parameters (degrees, cubic mm etc.) and just display the result.

Just guessing.

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J. R. @ Thomas Voetmann on Mar 30, 2015 5:45 AM

Part. As I've said, this part has references to other parts in the same assembly - it takes lengths of dimensions, shapes and so on, and then runs calculations according to them.

As I've said, to change units for this part would require to change units for the whole assembly (so that calculations are correct). Having assembly and this "evaluate" part in different units would require to re-write calculations. And there are a lot of them.

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Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 3:41 PM

Maybe Richard Doyle can forward this info to the usability guy? I forget his name...

Attachments

EquationTools.swp.zip12.7 KB
Part1.SLDPRT.zip36.2 KB

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J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 30, 2015 4:13 PM

Josh, I opened up your part, went into Equations window right away - and it's all red in errors. Equations aren't being solved, there are no results displayed.

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Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 5:11 PM

OK, the whole thing I just wrote says THE EQUATIONS DIALOG IS CRAP!!!! Don't even open it.

Instead, expand the Equations folder in the feature tree. You'll see the big numbers there. Run the macro I included if you want to see what the equations are. Change the diameter of the 300m circle (keep it less than 333), rebuild, and watch the 900m circle update. Its value is driven by the global variable "dummy5", which is the one that's over a million.

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J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 30, 2015 5:23 PM

Ok that seems to work. But what do I do to get Drawing Notes display some of these million-numbers? Will they display correctly?

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Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 10:31 PM

Dunno... How's about givin' 'er a shot? Link a custom property to the global variable and throw it on a drawing. See what happens!

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J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 31, 2015 5:27 AM

Okay, that seems to work. Thank you very much, Josh. You solved this thing.

Someone ought to fix this bug. I'll submit this.

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14 Replies

Jamil Snead Mar 26, 2015 11:27 PM
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Correct Answer
Maybe you can do it in a design table. Excel would be able to handle the equation.
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- J. R. @ Jamil Snead on Mar 27, 2015 4:50 AM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  Maybe, but design tables aren't updated on rebuild unless you manually open them. I need auto-rebuilding solution.
  Like • Show 0 Likes0
  Actions
Jamil Snead Mar 27, 2015 11:27 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Another admittedly undesirable workaround would be to model the part at 1/10 or 1/100 scale and then add a scale feature at the end of the part to bring it up to actual size.
Like • Show 0 Likes0
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- J. R. @ Jamil Snead on Mar 27, 2015 12:45 PM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  Maybe it could have been done at first stages, but now it's too late to re-make it from scratch in scale.
  
  But seriously, is there no decent way to run calculations within SolidWorks that update along with model and don't have such stupid limitations?
  Like • Show 0 Likes0
  Actions
  - Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 29, 2015 8:45 PM
    Mark Correct
    Correct Answer
    There is no such limitation that I know of. Can you post your model so we can see the stupid way you've set up your calculations that bumps you into the limits? If you have set up the model such that a dimension is calculated to be over 1km or puts geometry or sketch geometry outside a 1km cube then you will hit the modeler limitation. However, that's actual size. There's not a limit on the number of digits.
    Like • Show 0 Likes0
    Actions
    - J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 29, 2015 8:59 PM
      Mark Correct
      Correct Answer
      I'm sorry, I cannot post this, I'm not allowed to share any part of this project (not my choice). I don't understand why you say this is a stupid way; if you know a better one, please tell me.
      
      This project is done in MKS system.
      
      Suffice to say that these calculations result in numbers above 1000. That is intentional. There are no actual sketches or features that extend beyond 1km cube. These calculations are run in Global Variables, so they don't have anything to do with geometry. In further development, it is likely that calculations will return results in six or seven digits. And SW can't even display above 1000m.
      
      I know the obvious solution would be to use centimeters or milimeters instead of meters, but this is how this project is done, and it's too late to change that.
      
      I need to work with what I'm presented.
      Like • Show 0 Likes0
      Actions
      - Thomas Voetmann @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 1:46 AM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Is your model a part or an assembly? Parts have a dimension limit of 1000 meter. I know from modeling a railroad track once.
        Perhaps you could try to change units on your model, and/or do the calculations on some "wrong" parameters (degrees, cubic mm etc.) and just display the result.
        Just guessing.
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        J. R. @ Thomas Voetmann on Mar 30, 2015 5:45 AM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Part. As I've said, this part has references to other parts in the same assembly - it takes lengths of dimensions, shapes and so on, and then runs calculations according to them.
        
        As I've said, to change units for this part would require to change units for the whole assembly (so that calculations are correct). Having assembly and this "evaluate" part in different units would require to re-write calculations. And there are a lot of them.
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 3:41 PM
        Unmark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Sorry for the "stupid" terminology.... I was just trying to make a point that throwing around that sort of language isn't constructive. However, it appears you have run into what I consider a bug of the the Equations dialog box, not the equation functionality itself. Equations are happy with very large values. I have attached a part model with a global variable whose value is 1.08 million meters. It's more than happy to calculate all the equations that make it up, and also to use those large values in calculating values for geometry that lie within modeler resolution. However, the Equations dialog box will complain if you try to enter or view equations that result in these large values.
        
        There are lots of equations (ones using large numbers, ones that include VBA, etc) that are perfectly valid and work just fine as long as you avoid the "idiot box" that is the Equations dialog. There are a couple of workarounds available to you.
        
        One is to initiate your equations using small dimensions that result in small values. Then, once the equations are all working right, change your small dimensions to big ones from outside the Equations dialog. The >1000 values should calculate just fine.
        
        The other option is to avoid the Equations dialog altogether. For that, you can use the handy macro I've attached that was written by Luke Malpass. Run this macro and you will get a plain text list of all the equations in the model. It won't do any syntax checking, value checking, unit assigning, etc. for you. It's what I used to create the equations in this part file.
        
        As a user of SolidWorks, I'm insulted that the program takes so much upon itself to complain about and refuse to evaluate advanced equations. However, I've not actually needed them for my job, so I haven't bothered to submit a SPR for it. However, it looks like you have a legit use case where you are severely impacted by this bug. That should help elevate the SPR.
        
        Maybe Richard Doyle can forward this info to the usability guy? I forget his name...
        Attachments
        EquationTools.swp.zip12.7 KB
        Part1.SLDPRT.zip36.2 KB
        Like • Show 1 Like1
        Actions
        J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 30, 2015 4:13 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Josh, I opened up your part, went into Equations window right away - and it's all red in errors. Equations aren't being solved, there are no results displayed.
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 5:11 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        OK, the whole thing I just wrote says THE EQUATIONS DIALOG IS CRAP!!!! Don't even open it.
        
        Instead, expand the Equations folder in the feature tree. You'll see the big numbers there. Run the macro I included if you want to see what the equations are. Change the diameter of the 300m circle (keep it less than 333), rebuild, and watch the 900m circle update. Its value is driven by the global variable "dummy5", which is the one that's over a million.
        Like • Show 1 Like1
        Actions
        J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 30, 2015 5:23 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Ok that seems to work. But what do I do to get Drawing Notes display some of these million-numbers? Will they display correctly?
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        Josh Brady @ J. R. on Mar 30, 2015 10:31 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Dunno... How's about givin' 'er a shot? Link a custom property to the global variable and throw it on a drawing. See what happens!
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        J. R. @ Josh Brady on Mar 31, 2015 5:27 AM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Okay, that seems to work. Thank you very much, Josh. You solved this thing.
        
        Someone ought to fix this bug. I'll submit this.
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions

Very large numbers in Equations

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