11 Replies Latest reply on Oct 1, 2015 3:19 PM by Michael Marshall

    File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015

    Jim Sculley

      After an upgrade from EPDM 2013 SP3 to EPDM 2015 SP 1.1, one of my add-in is failing at the point where it moves a file using IEdmFile::Move.  The error message is:

       

      "An attempt was made to move a file to another location"

       

      Well, yes, that is what the Move method is supposed to do.  Some testing shows that the problem exists if I try to move the file manually as well:

       

       

      Permissions problem right?  Well, I cannot seem to find the permission that I missed.  In both the source and destination folders I have add/delete/move/rename permissions.  I also have add/delete/move permissions for the state the file is in.

       

      Nothing has been changed by me via the EPDM Admin tool.  This all worked correctly before the upgrade to 2015.

       

      Has anyone else encountered this problem?

        • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
          Jeff Sweeney

          I've not tested it yet, but I bet "move" is effected by "ignore permissions from previous states". Temporarily turn that option on in the workflow state to see if you can move the file.

            • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
              Jim Sculley

              Interestingly, this solved the problem, but I don't know why.  The workflow looks like this:

               

              workflow.png

              Some files in the Assigning Oracle Number state could not be moved.  Anything that went from Purchased Item WIP directly to the Assigning Oracle Number state could be moved.  Anything that went from Purchased Item WIP through Release Pending to Assigning Oracle Number could not be moved.  If a file went through Release Pending to Assigning Oracle Number, was returned to  Purchased Item WIP and then sent directly back to  Assigning Oracle Number, it still could not be moved.  So, basically anything in Assigning Oracle Number that went through Release Pending could not be moved. 

               

              The Release Pending state has tighter permissions than the 'Purchased Item WIP' state.  Move and Delete are not checked.  Files are never supposed to remain in that state (all transitions leaving it are automatic), so I did not enable Move and Delete rights.  If a file gets 'stuck' in release pending, it indicates a serious error in my add-in and I would want a vault admin to investigate and correct the problem.  With 'Move' and 'Delete' rights, the regular users could make the problem worse.  For the 10,000 files we've sent through this workflow prior to the 2015 upgrade, there were no problems.  It seems that Ignore permissions from previous states works differently in 2015.  Whether or not it is intentional, I'll have to wait for an answer from SW.

               

              Jim S.

                • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                  Jeff Sweeney

                  Most of what you said makes sense to how that option works. "Move" is a negative right...once you lose it you'll never get it back. Users lose the move right as a file goes through Release Pending -unless the "ignore permissions from previous states" option tells EPDM to forget that file's past.

                   

                  It is interesting to see how it handles the legacy data, since the move right is new thus could never be in the file's history.

                   

                  • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                    Jim Sculley

                    Actually, it isn't Ignore permissions from previous states that works differently.  I wasn't using it before and I'm not using it now.  One of two scenarios are in play here.

                     

                    1.  EPDM 2015 permissions work differently than they did in 2013.

                    2.  The EPDM upgrade changed something in the way our vault is set up.

                     

                    So, we either have an undocumented change in the way EPDM works or we have an upgrade that makes undocumented changes to a customer's system.  I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from either option.

                • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                  Michael Dekoning

                  Could the change to add a separate permission to move files and folders be the culprit?

                    • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                      Jim Sculley

                      That was my first thought, but all the Add/Rename/Move/Delete permisions are there.  For the group, the folders and the state.  Both at the group level and on the folders themselves.

                       

                      Jim S.

                        • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                          Rick Lacouture

                          Jim,

                          We had the exact same issue and were scratching our heads thinking, "did we miss something here? I thought it worked before..."

                           

                          Our VAR technical support explained to us that, "A User or Group must have those permissions for EACH State within the HISTORY of the file."

                           

                          So, in our case, a file can potentially go out to another workflow and come back into the same workflow (that was only intended to be done by the Admin), now must have each Group permission to add/rename/move/delete in the other states in the other workflow as well.   We were told, "This is how it always has been," but we never encountered it prior to upgrading to 2015.  The Ignore Permissions From Previous States checkbox did not work for us on our complex workflow and would not recommend using it.

                           

                          To solve this, I had to manually go through each Group; select State Permissions; select each affected Workflow; select all of the States; and be sure that Add/Rename/Move/Delete were all Checked.  Not "Filled In", but actually Checked.

                           

                          -Rick

                      • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                        Eddie Pellegrin

                        Anymore info on this? The Ignore Permissions From Previous States doesn't seem to be the solution. It seems that the question shouldn't be marked as answered?

                        • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                          Eddie Pellegrin

                          It sounds like the only way to make it work is to unlock moving all files including ones that are "Released" and "Approved'. Seems pretty dangerous. Is this a bug in the EPDM 2015?

                          • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                            Chris B.

                            Just got EPDM 2015, and I couldn't move files with move tree either.  Got the same error message.

                             

                            Adding Ignore Permissions from Previous States to each state of the workflow then did allow me to move the files. 


                            Is there any reason not to set each state to that?

                              • Re: File Move Not Working In EPDM 2015
                                Michael Marshall

                                We have a similar situation at Berry. When we implemented EPDM over 2 years ago, the design engineering teams agreed that once the files reach a certain State (as part of the review/approval process), no one should be able to Move or Delete the files. I set it up accordingly, comfortable in the knowledge that when the files reached State X we would no longer include those Move and Delete permissions, and when the files made a return trip to the editable States prior to State X they wouldn't suddenly "regain" the Move / Delete permissions, potentially invalidating the permissions/setup.

                                 

                                Now, 2 years later, the two main teams have recognized a need for certain "caretakers" to be able to Move the files as they reorganize data. I can change the existing Workflows to add that Move permission to State X and beyond for those caretaker Groups...but it only seems to work on files going through those States for the first time. In other words, older files that have already been through State X previously (and thus lost the Move permission for a certain Group) will not suddenly "regain" the Move permission just because I've fixed the States X and beyond to include the Move permission. It's as though once the files lose the permission, they stay lost.

                                 

                                The only fix that seems to work for the older/previous files is to tick the poorly-worded "Ignore permissions from previous states" at that State X and beyond, ensuring that only those caretaker Groups have that Move permission in those States.

                                 

                                I've noted several people express that the "Ignore permissions..." thing should be avoided, but am having trouble understanding why...not a lot of detail there.