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Calculate motor speed based on a desired speed of another moving part

Question asked by Alex Aan on Sep 21, 2014
Latest reply on Oct 6, 2014 by Jared Conway

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I have a motor which oscillatates the green component along x-axis like an actuator. The green component should have a linear speed between 320mm/s and 330mm/s. I have to calculate which speed the motor must have in order to satisfy this requirement.

I have tried:

1. Rotate the motor from 0deg/s up to 2000deg/s in 10 seconds. And then create a linear velocity graf for the green part. The plot should give me a range in seconds where the speed is between 320 and 330mm/s. Having the time I can get the rotation speed of the motor from the function builder graphs in motors motion data(segmnets).

However this method is not very accurate. How can I get the green part to move exatly between 320 and 330mm/s? What other options do I have?

14-053-301.zip - Google Drive

Assem1.avi - Google Drive

Rohit Choudhary Sep 26, 2014 3:14 AM

Correct Answer

Hi Alex,

I have come up with the motor speed required to for the Slider to achieve a linear velocity 320-330 mm/sec. Please find the assembly in the attachement.

THere were some work around that I had to do as I am working on SW 2012 Premium; they are as described in the following:

1. As the 3D models were created in the higher version of SW, i had to import it using another CAD software in Step file format. So the parts when you refer will be defeatured.

2. SW2012 does not have spherical mates, like the newer version, hence I had to give a different mate criterion to manifest a Ball-Socket Joint. You will be able to refer it in the attached files.

If you are ok with these work-arounds then, I feel the motion analysis done, should be acceptable.

Anyways do let me know your thoughts on this.

Cheers!!

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Rohit Choudhary Sep 22, 2014 3:42 AM

Hi Alex,

Hope you had good weekend.

I just tried accessing the Assembly and Video Files - I have sent you a request for the acessing those files.

I am certain that the solution is just around the corner.

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Alex Aan @ Rohit Choudhary on Sep 22, 2014 3:45 AM

Hi Rohit and thank for the reply. I have corrected the links now.

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Rohit Choudhary @ Alex Aan on Sep 23, 2014 1:51 AM

Hi Alex,

I am working with Solidworks 2012, and the models are created in a future version I guess. Could please share the assembly in step or parasolid file format?

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Rohit Choudhary Sep 22, 2014 4:43 AM

Alex,

How about trying the v=rw formula? This is a relationship between the linear velocity (v) and angular velocity (w, actually omega). where r = radius, in this case, considering you need the motor to drive the yellow disk, the distance between the centre of the yellow disk to the point where the long slender rod joins the yellow disk. One thing I am apprehensive about is that, will the this formula hold good in the presence of the rocker arm between the two components.

Just give a try by working backwards, substitute the linear velocity and radius and determine the angular velocity. From this you have to calculate the rpm. Eventually feed this motor data in the simulation and see if you get concurrent results.

Once I get an access to your files I can give a try and show you if it works..

cheers

Actions

Jared Conway Sep 23, 2014 7:36 PM

i don't think i understand the problem

something to think about

you can enter the motor and then you will find the resulting behavior of the other components in the system

or you could move the components in the system that you care about the way you want them to move and then report on the component to find out what would be necessary to reverse the system

so for example if you look at youtube, there is an example with a robot. instead of figuring out all the motor controls on all the elbows...etc. you move the end of the robot with a path mate and then output the controls at the elbows. this gives you the "program" for the elbows.

if that doesnt answer the question, you'll have to give me some more info here about what your goal is

Actions

Rohit Choudhary Sep 26, 2014 3:14 AM

Hi Alex,

I have come up with the motor speed required to for the Slider to achieve a linear velocity 320-330 mm/sec. Please find the assembly in the attachement.

THere were some work around that I had to do as I am working on SW 2012 Premium; they are as described in the following:

1. As the 3D models were created in the higher version of SW, i had to import it using another CAD software in Step file format. So the parts when you refer will be defeatured.

2. SW2012 does not have spherical mates, like the newer version, hence I had to give a different mate criterion to manifest a Ball-Socket Joint. You will be able to refer it in the attached files.

If you are ok with these work-arounds then, I feel the motion analysis done, should be acceptable.

Anyways do let me know your thoughts on this.

Cheers!!

Attachments

Mechanism Assy_26thSept_2014.zip7.7 MB

Actions

Alex Aan @ Rohit Choudhary on Sep 28, 2014 10:13 AM

Thank you Rohit. I also got the same results.

Between 700deg/s and 720deg/s for the motor gives us the correct speed for the green part.

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Jared Conway @ Rohit Choudhary on Sep 29, 2014 5:43 PM

could you outline the basics of your solution here? that way if someone is searching for the words they will come across this post

Actions

Rohit Choudhary @ Jared Conway on Oct 2, 2014 2:58 AM

Hi Jared,

Thanks for making me realize it.

I think for everyone it is very clear about the problem/question that Alex had raised in this discussion. If not - in a nutshell - in a mechanism, the rotating motion of a component gets converted to reciprocating motion of another component with help of a link and ball socket joint. A speed of 320-330mm/s was to be achieved at reciprocating end, but the what should be the motor definitions to achieve that linear reciprocating motion was not known.

To find out the unknown motor definition- there are two ways:

1. First Method- , do the trial and error method, i.e , define a motor at the rotating component, and then find out the speed of the reciprocating component. And then keep changing the motor speed till the desired output is achieved. I bet this is a tiresome and frustrating.

2. Second Method - work backward i.e, the speed of the reciprocating component is known, so define a linear actuator (and Select Oscillating under the type of Motion) with 320mm/sec and then find out what is the rpm achieved at the rotating component. Thus it is possible to then define a rotary motor based on this outcome. This method can give the results very fast and certainly not frustrating.

Thus the problem was resolved.

Hope everyone will get a clarity from this outline of the solution.

Thanks and Have a wonderful day ahead!!

Actions

Jared Conway @ Rohit Choudhary on Oct 6, 2014 8:49 PM

good job. very similar to what I had described above.

"you can enter the motor and then you will find the resulting behavior of the other components in the system

or you could move the components in the system that you care about the way you want them to move and then report on the component to find out what would be necessary to reverse the system

Actions

10 Replies

Rohit Choudhary Sep 22, 2014 3:42 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Hi Alex,
Hope you had good weekend.
I just tried accessing the Assembly and Video Files - I have sent you a request for the acessing those files.
I am certain that the solution is just around the corner.
Like • Show 1 Like1
Actions
- Alex Aan @ Rohit Choudhary on Sep 22, 2014 3:45 AM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  Hi Rohit and thank for the reply. I have corrected the links now.
  Like • Show 1 Like1
  Actions
  - Rohit Choudhary @ Alex Aan on Sep 23, 2014 1:51 AM
    Mark Correct
    Correct Answer
    Hi Alex,
    I am working with Solidworks 2012, and the models are created in a future version I guess. Could please share the assembly in step or parasolid file format?
    Like • Show 2 Likes2
    Actions
Rohit Choudhary Sep 22, 2014 4:43 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Alex,
How about trying the v=rw formula? This is a relationship between the linear velocity (v) and angular velocity (w, actually omega). where r = radius, in this case, considering you need the motor to drive the yellow disk, the distance between the centre of the yellow disk to the point where the long slender rod joins the yellow disk. One thing I am apprehensive about is that, will the this formula hold good in the presence of the rocker arm between the two components.
Just give a try by working backwards, substitute the linear velocity and radius and determine the angular velocity. From this you have to calculate the rpm. Eventually feed this motor data in the simulation and see if you get concurrent results.
Once I get an access to your files I can give a try and show you if it works..

cheers
Like • Show 2 Likes2
Actions
Jared Conway Sep 23, 2014 7:36 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
i don't think i understand the problem

something to think about

you can enter the motor and then you will find the resulting behavior of the other components in the system
or you could move the components in the system that you care about the way you want them to move and then report on the component to find out what would be necessary to reverse the system

so for example if you look at youtube, there is an example with a robot. instead of figuring out all the motor controls on all the elbows...etc. you move the end of the robot with a path mate and then output the controls at the elbows. this gives you the "program" for the elbows.

if that doesnt answer the question, you'll have to give me some more info here about what your goal is
Like • Show 0 Likes0
Actions
Rohit Choudhary Sep 26, 2014 3:14 AM
Unmark Correct
Correct Answer
Hi Alex,
I have come up with the motor speed required to for the Slider to achieve a linear velocity 320-330 mm/sec. Please find the assembly in the attachement.
THere were some work around that I had to do as I am working on SW 2012 Premium; they are as described in the following:
1. As the 3D models were created in the higher version of SW, i had to import it using another CAD software in Step file format. So the parts when you refer will be defeatured.
2. SW2012 does not have spherical mates, like the newer version, hence I had to give a different mate criterion to manifest a Ball-Socket Joint. You will be able to refer it in the attached files.
If you are ok with these work-arounds then, I feel the motion analysis done, should be acceptable.
Anyways do let me know your thoughts on this.
Cheers!!
Attachments
- Mechanism Assy_26thSept_2014.zip7.7 MB
Like • Show 1 Like1
Actions
- Alex Aan @ Rohit Choudhary on Sep 28, 2014 10:13 AM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  Thank you Rohit. I also got the same results.
  Between 700deg/s and 720deg/s for the motor gives us the correct speed for the green part.
  Like • Show 1 Like1
  Actions
- Jared Conway @ Rohit Choudhary on Sep 29, 2014 5:43 PM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  could you outline the basics of your solution here? that way if someone is searching for the words they will come across this post
  Like • Show 1 Like1
  Actions
  - Rohit Choudhary @ Jared Conway on Oct 2, 2014 2:58 AM
    Mark Correct
    Correct Answer
    Hi Jared,
    Thanks for making me realize it.
    I think for everyone it is very clear about the problem/question that Alex had raised in this discussion. If not - in a nutshell - in a mechanism, the rotating motion of a component gets converted to reciprocating motion of another component with help of a link and ball socket joint. A speed of 320-330mm/s was to be achieved at reciprocating end, but the what should be the motor definitions to achieve that linear reciprocating motion was not known.
    To find out the unknown motor definition- there are two ways:
    
    1. First Method- , do the trial and error method, i.e , define a motor at the rotating component, and then find out the speed of the reciprocating component. And then keep changing the motor speed till the desired output is achieved. I bet this is a tiresome and frustrating.
    2. Second Method - work backward i.e, the speed of the reciprocating component is known, so define a linear actuator (and Select Oscillating under the type of Motion) with 320mm/sec and then find out what is the rpm achieved at the rotating component. Thus it is possible to then define a rotary motor based on this outcome. This method can give the results very fast and certainly not frustrating.
    Thus the problem was resolved.
    Hope everyone will get a clarity from this outline of the solution.
    Thanks and Have a wonderful day ahead!!
    Like • Show 1 Like1
    Actions
    - Jared Conway @ Rohit Choudhary on Oct 6, 2014 8:49 PM
      Mark Correct
      Correct Answer
      good job. very similar to what I had described above.
      
      "you can enter the motor and then you will find the resulting behavior of the other components in the system
      or you could move the components in the system that you care about the way you want them to move and then report on the component to find out what would be necessary to reverse the system
      
      so for example if you look at youtube, there is an example with a robot. instead of figuring out all the motor controls on all the elbows...etc. you move the end of the robot with a path mate and then output the controls at the elbows. this gives you the "program" for the elbows."
      Like • Show 0 Likes0
      Actions

Calculate motor speed based on a desired speed of another moving part

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