20 Replies Latest reply on Jul 3, 2014 3:56 PM by Shaun Densberger

    No Penetration Troubleshoot

    Robert Fichera

      Hi there,

       

      I am running an assembly simulation.  Initially, I used a globally bonded contact for my assembly - and the simulation was succesful as expected.  Now, the only thing I altered was a no penetration contact set between two bodies.  I know that local contact sets will override the global contact - so I know that my contact sets are valid.  The ONLY thing I changed was switching from a bonded contact, to a no pentratino contact.  Understand that where I applied this setting I am using a bolted connection - therefore solidworks requires a no penetration contact between those two faces.  Now when I try to run the study, the solver will never finish the simulation.  I will usually be prompted with "Cannot create master control file" or more recently "solver encountered numerical difficulties".  I have no idea why this is happening.  The study will run for well over an hour before I prompt with anything.

       

      If it makes my question easier to answer, I using a curvature based mesh (relatively coarse for a good baseline study) with a max size of 15mm, min size of 3mm(more of less, cant remember), # of tetrahedrons per hole of 10, and a growth ratio of 1.3  I have no issues meshing the assembly.

       

      Please help!

       

      Thank you!

        • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
          Shaun Densberger

          Can you post your model?

          • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
            Robert Fichera

            Of course, here you go.Upright.PNG

            • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
              Nicholas Luyster

              Hi Robert,

               

              If you switch to a course mesh, you'll be able to get to the error message much faster.  This should save you some time while you're troubleshooting.

               

              All the best,

               

              Nick

              Simulation Trainint and Tutorials at gosimulation.com

              • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                Shaun Densberger

                Your model came in with some parent-child issues that caused some simulation definitions to require a redefine. I redefined them as best as I could for how I understand your model (disk brake under braking).

                 

                That being said, I was able to get your model to run with your set up, so I'm not too sure why you're having issues (I'm using SW 2014 though). I would try what Jared suggested with regards to the bolt pre-load value, as well as Nick's suggestion on the mesh size (although too course of a mesh on the contact surfaces can cause convergence issues, so keep that in mind). I also think it'd be worth some of your time to clean up the geometry a bit to remove small features to improve the robustness of your mesh.

                 

                One other thing. Once you get a stable model running, I'd suggest that you reconsider some of your bonded interfaces in your model for accuracy sake.

                  • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                    Robert Fichera

                    I have taken away the bolt pre-load.  Also, you cannot run the study without any external loads.  So what I did instead was run the study one at a time with each of the three loads.  What I found was that running the study with both brake torques prompted a warning for large displacement.  Now, I understand that stressing the material beyond its yield is an indication that a nonlinear study should be done instead of a static study, yes?

                      • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                        Robert Fichera

                        Could you possible upload the assembly file with your changes?

                        • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                          Shaun Densberger

                          Also, you cannot run the study without any external loads.

                           

                          Correct. You could add a dummy load to get the analysis to run though (something like 0.001 g of gravity).

                           

                          What I found was that running the study with both brake torques prompted a warning for large displacement. Now, I understand that stressing the material beyond its yield is an indication that a nonlinear study should be done....

                           

                          Generally speaking, yes. However, if the above-yield stresses are due to singularities, then you don't need to run a nonlinear analysis; you'll just need to handle the singularities in the appropriate manner. If you do have above-yield stresses that aren't due to singularities, then you'll need to define the appropriate elasto-plastic material model (perfectly plastic, linear hardening, etc.) Be aware that if you decide do go down the elasto-plastic route, your displacements will get larger due to the decrease in the Young's Modulus when you go into the plastic region. I'm not sure what the purpose of your project is, but if it's to design a spindle to handle the applied loads, then I'd stay away from a elasto-plastic material model and large-displacement formulation and modify the geometry of the model to bring the stresses to a sub-yield level.

                           

                          ...instead of a static study, yes?

                           

                          Nonlinear and static are two different categories. Linear and Nonlinear refer to the assumptions used in the formulation of the model. Linear assumes purely constant material properties (no plasticity, temperature dependent CTE, etc.), small strains and displacements (no second order terms), no contact (path dependent solution), etc. Nonlinear doesn't necessarily make these assumptions (it depends on how you set up the model), and can account for some or all of these effects. Static and Dynamic refer to whether your solution is time-independent or time-dependent. As such, you have four analysis types:

                          1. Linear Static
                          2. Linear Dynamic
                          3. Nonlinear Static
                          4. Nonlinear Dynamic.
                          • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                            Jared Conway

                            mroe than likely you have a load issue, probably too high rather than needing nonlinear

                            nonlinear is only needed for large displacement (doubt you want this) or plastic deformation (doubt you want this either)

                             

                            suggest you sit down and figure out how you came up with your loads

                            what your expectations are regarding those loads

                            if your loads are right, your design is poor and needs adjustment

                              • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                                Robert Fichera

                                Shaun, then in order to determine whether there are any stress singularities, would you recommend refining the mesh and re-running the study?

                                I am designing my material to stay within a reasonable safety factor of its yield stress, therefore, would you agree I should steer clear of elasto-plastic properties (as Jared mentioned).

                                 

                                I also agree with Jared's logic.  There are two braking torques appied at the brake caliper.  Applying them individually works without issue - when together, soldiworks detects large displacement.  So I think we are all getting on the same page here - I just wanted to clarify.

                                 

                                Also, I am installing SW 2014 soon... You might as well attach it and I'll see if it works...

                                  • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                                    Jared Conway

                                    what needs clarification still?

                                     

                                    linear material is fine as long as your material isn't significantly nonlinear, you don't care about plastic deformation, which i think is your situation

                                    large displacements are probably real large displacements and due to a setup issue

                                    • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                                      Shaun Densberger

                                      I am designing my material to stay within a reasonable safety factor of its yield stress, therefore, would you agree I should steer clear of elasto-plastic properties (as Jared mentioned).

                                       

                                      Yes.

                                       

                                      I also agree with Jared's logic.  There are two braking torques appied at the brake caliper.  Applying them individually works without issue - when together, soldiworks detects large displacement. 

                                       

                                      I'd double the thickness (or more; I forget how much over yield the stresses were) of the support member on the spindle for the caliper to resolve this.

                                       

                                      Here's a zip of the files I was using.

                                      • Re: No Penetration Troubleshoot
                                        Shaun Densberger

                                        I am designing my material to stay within a reasonable safety factor of its yield stress, therefore, would you agree I should steer clear of elasto-plastic properties (as Jared mentioned).

                                         

                                        Yes.

                                         

                                        I also agree with Jared's logic.  There are two braking torques appied at the brake caliper.  Applying them individually works without issue - when together, soldiworks detects large displacement. 

                                         

                                        I'd double the thickness (or more; I forget how much over yield the stresses were) of the support member on the spindle for the caliper to resolve this.

                                         

                                        I've emailed you the files that I was using.