8 Replies Latest reply on Mar 10, 2014 5:31 PM by Shaun Densberger

    what about simulation in microworld?

    George Antonopoulos

      Hello everybody.My name is George Antonopoulos and I am a dental technitian specialised in designing micro dental appliances.I was wondering ...Is it possible to test a very small  ''element'' with the simulating method?When we go down the limits of 1 mm is it possible to have a theoritical approach of von mises analysis and other studies using the sw software?I have made some studies in those fields, but how far is the truth and the possibility of a truth value that will take a  strong place in the structuring result?

        • Re: what about simulation in microworld?
          Jared Conway

          does mechanics of materials change at that scale? if not, simulation should be fine.

          there is no limit in the tool on the size of the components or the element size.

            • Re: what about simulation in microworld?
              George Antonopoulos

              Thanks Jared.I think that mechanics of materials doesnt change in that field.Is just we do not have the knowledge of that level (as far as we speak right know).So maby throuhg the years ,the technological progress give us great responsibility and thruth about a micro-simulation.For me macro and micro world have the same rules.Thanks again for your opinion!

            • Re: what about simulation in microworld?
              Jerry Steiger

              George,

               

              SolidWorks itself starts running into difficulties getting the geometry correct when you start getting into the micrometer range. I don't work in that size range, but I have seen others complaining in the forums when they have had problems.

               

              Jerry S.

                • Re: what about simulation in microworld?
                  George Antonopoulos

                  Hi jerry,

                  thank you very much for your reply.Personally i believe that, from the point we have to complete a mechanical proccedure ,the mathematical analysis ,-that is the base of the simulation- does it job.So the problem isnt in the methematics.The problem ,I think , has to do with our level to ''give'' the right value to the right property.Micro and macro world from a scientific perspective have the same rules.

                  Anyway in the next years I think that we will be able to put no limits in our analysis.

                  Thanks again for your reply!

                • Re: what about simulation in microworld?
                  Shaun Densberger

                  Is it possible to test a very small  ''element'' with the simulating method?

                   

                  In theory, the "size" of the problem does not matter from the continuum mechanics and finite element perspective as long as the assumptions made by the above theories still hold true. However I can see two potential issues arise if the problem becomes small enough.

                   

                  1. Certain assumptions might no longer be true (or rather, they might not be a good approximation). For example, I'm thinking that the homogenous material assumption becomes more and more erroneous the smaller the scale is. The big question is how much more erroneous does it become as we decrease in orders of magnitude.
                  2. As Jerry pointed out, if your scale is very small, then SW will have tolerance issues on how it defines the geometry and how it meshes the geometry. This can be fixed by scaling the model up. This would also fix another issue that deals with numerical solutions and computers in general. Computers have a float point limit, so if you have a numeric value that requires some absurd amount of decimal places of precision, then I can see this causing a significant amount of error or creating numerical stability issues.
                  3. If you scale gets small enough, then you'll need to start capturing effects that you'd normally ignore. On the sub-millimeter scale, friction becomes very important; if you start to get into the low nm range, then you need to start accounting quantum phenomena like the Casimir effect.

                   

                  When we go down the limits of 1 mm is it possible to have a theoritical approach of von mises analysis

                   

                  Can you clarify this statement at all? Is your problem on the order of millimeters? What do you mean by a, "theoretical approach of von mises analysis?"

                   

                  Overall, if you're wanting to simulate structural object used in dentistry, then I think that this is well within the limits of continuum mechanics and the finite element method (millimeter or tenths of millimeter scale).