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Gaskets issue

Question asked by Mladen Pavlovic on Nov 19, 2013
Latest reply on Dec 9, 2013 by Mladen Pavlovic

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I know that a lot of people avoid using gasket in their routing because of the possible issues. Unfortunately, i work in such environment that i need to use gaskets on a regular basis (we work on a lot of complex piping system which will require me to use gasket for proper spacing, fabrication details as well just counting them).

My problem is simple in nature. Let's say i have a flange and i take gasket from my library to drag and drop it onto the flange, matting reference is working properly. Now when i want to insert mating flange to the other side of the gasket 2 things happen:

1) mating reference picks up the same side of the gasket, which was used to mate to first flange, or

2) flange picks up the mating reference from the first flange.

I was careful when i was developing mating reference in gaskets and flanges and have no idea how to bypass this.

Now i know that some will think of inserting the whole assembly to the route (flange+gasket+flange), but in some cases i cannot do that (start of the route fr example).

I have attached model of the gasket and one of the flanges.

Any help is appreciated

Philip Lewis Nov 20, 2013 9:18 AM

Correct Answer

I see what you are trying to do with the mate references here but may I suggest simplifying things. I don't have a lot of experience with using multiple mate references on a part but when I have tried it hasn't worked. See if these simplified versions will do what you want. It will not lock the angle but should snap to whatever outer face you want.

See the reply in context

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Garlock ST-706.SLDPRT.zip306.8 KB
Slip-On.SLDPRT.zip364.0 KB

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Philip Lewis Nov 20, 2013 9:18 AM

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Slip-On and gasket ver 2.zip360.5 KB

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Mladen Pavlovic @ Philip Lewis on Nov 20, 2013 9:20 AM

I need minimum 2 refernces. I will try to simplify a bit by removing the last one. It cannot work (as intended) without concectric and coincident constraints...

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Philip Lewis @ Mladen Pavlovic on Nov 20, 2013 9:34 AM

Do you mean to stop rotation? The mate reference with the edge automatically makes the part concentric and coincident to whatever face you use it on.

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Mark Coville @ Philip Lewis on Nov 26, 2013 9:17 AM

I have had the same issues with gaskets and suprise I have to use work arounds. I cannot open your parts since I am using 2011, but I do not think there is any way to make it work right with mate references. Here is a couple workarounds I use.

1. Image1 shows what I believe is happening to you. I let it grab the other flange or other face of the gasket then exit the route. Find the mates for the newly inserted flange in the FMT. Right click on the coincident mate and select replace mate entities. (Image2). Select the mate you wish to replace and then select the correct face of the gasket.

2. Create a sub-assembly that includes one flange and one gasket (see image4). Add one route point, one connection point and the correct mate references. Drop the whole assembly onto another flange of another route and it will insert correctly.

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Image1.PNG130.8 KB
Image2.png128.4 KB
Image3.png238.3 KB
Image4.png240.2 KB

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Mladen Pavlovic @ Mark Coville on Nov 26, 2013 9:32 AM

Mark,

that is exactly what is happening to me.

Also, i did not say that there are no work arounds, but it is not logic (to me) that you have such a complicated system (as routing is) working really nice and at the same time have the problem with such basic part of it. Also, replacing mate entities is not the easiest thing to do when you are dealing with reaised face flanges. Your images show full face flanges..

I will have to try worknig with only one mate entity on gasket to see wheter it will help

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Mark Coville @ Mladen Pavlovic on Nov 26, 2013 9:42 AM

Mladen,

Routing is complicated and I use a number of workarounds to keep things running the way we need them to. From gaskets to thread-olets to spooling issues. Some areas of routing just don't work the way they should. I have tried for years to get the gasket to work properly with no luck so I found other ways, it's up to you to use them or not. These are raised face flanges I just don't show the raised face because when it comes to system resources simplier is better.

Good Luck,

Mark

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Philip Lewis @ Mark Coville on Nov 26, 2013 9:52 AM

There is another way that you may or may not like. It is how I actually use routing. You would not use mate references at all. You would place the gasket on the line away from the flange. Put a dimension on the line between them (make it an even number if you like).

Then use the measure tool to get the distance between the 2 faces.

Subtract that number from your dimension and your parts will be face to face. I know this sounds long but it is actually not that bad. After some time you remember what the dimension is for each flange size and can just put that in without measuring.

This is actually simpler with parts that both have connection points facing each other. Then you right click on the line between the two parts and select "remove pipe" from the menu. This brings the connection points together and puts the dimension line on automatically.

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Mladen Pavlovic Dec 9, 2013 9:09 AM

It seems that creating one mate (outer edge) on gasket solves the issue, but only if the same logic is applied to the face of the flange as well. Otherwise it will not work. IN return this reduces number of mates present in assembly, as well solves the issue of gasket and flange faces not mating properly.

As i had discussion with my VAR, the "envelopes" that are created when mate references are present are part of the problem. SW has problems deciding which mate reference to use when you have those envelopes interfere. Plus if the mates are similar (or the same, as in case of flange+gasket joint), problem is even bigger.

So i guess that when you create 1 mate per reference, the envelopes are not interfering, and problem does not show up.

hopefully this was clear enough.

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8 Replies

Philip Lewis Nov 20, 2013 9:18 AM
Unmark Correct
Correct Answer
I see what you are trying to do with the mate references here but may I suggest simplifying things. I don't have a lot of experience with using multiple mate references on a part but when I have tried it hasn't worked. See if these simplified versions will do what you want. It will not lock the angle but should snap to whatever outer face you want.
Attachments
- Slip-On and gasket ver 2.zip360.5 KB
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- Mladen Pavlovic @ Philip Lewis on Nov 20, 2013 9:20 AM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  I need minimum 2 refernces. I will try to simplify a bit by removing the last one. It cannot work (as intended) without concectric and coincident constraints...
  Like • Show 0 Likes0
  Actions
  - Philip Lewis @ Mladen Pavlovic on Nov 20, 2013 9:34 AM
    Mark Correct
    Correct Answer
    Do you mean to stop rotation? The mate reference with the edge automatically makes the part concentric and coincident to whatever face you use it on.
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    - Mark Coville @ Philip Lewis on Nov 26, 2013 9:17 AM
      Mark Correct
      Correct Answer
      I have had the same issues with gaskets and suprise I have to use work arounds. I cannot open your parts since I am using 2011, but I do not think there is any way to make it work right with mate references. Here is a couple workarounds I use.
      
      1. Image1 shows what I believe is happening to you. I let it grab the other flange or other face of the gasket then exit the route. Find the mates for the newly inserted flange in the FMT. Right click on the coincident mate and select replace mate entities. (Image2). Select the mate you wish to replace and then select the correct face of the gasket.
      
      2. Create a sub-assembly that includes one flange and one gasket (see image4). Add one route point, one connection point and the correct mate references. Drop the whole assembly onto another flange of another route and it will insert correctly.
      Attachments
      Image1.PNG130.8 KB
      Image2.png128.4 KB
      Image3.png238.3 KB
      Image4.png240.2 KB
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      - Mladen Pavlovic @ Mark Coville on Nov 26, 2013 9:32 AM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Mark,
        
        that is exactly what is happening to me.
        
        Also, i did not say that there are no work arounds, but it is not logic (to me) that you have such a complicated system (as routing is) working really nice and at the same time have the problem with such basic part of it. Also, replacing mate entities is not the easiest thing to do when you are dealing with reaised face flanges. Your images show full face flanges..
        
        I will have to try worknig with only one mate entity on gasket to see wheter it will help
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        Mark Coville @ Mladen Pavlovic on Nov 26, 2013 9:42 AM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Mladen,
        
        Routing is complicated and I use a number of workarounds to keep things running the way we need them to. From gaskets to thread-olets to spooling issues. Some areas of routing just don't work the way they should. I have tried for years to get the gasket to work properly with no luck so I found other ways, it's up to you to use them or not. These are raised face flanges I just don't show the raised face because when it comes to system resources simplier is better.
        
        Good Luck,
        Mark
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
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      - Philip Lewis @ Mark Coville on Nov 26, 2013 9:52 AM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        There is another way that you may or may not like. It is how I actually use routing. You would not use mate references at all. You would place the gasket on the line away from the flange. Put a dimension on the line between them (make it an even number if you like).
        
        Then use the measure tool to get the distance between the 2 faces.
        
        Subtract that number from your dimension and your parts will be face to face. I know this sounds long but it is actually not that bad. After some time you remember what the dimension is for each flange size and can just put that in without measuring.
        
        This is actually simpler with parts that both have connection points facing each other. Then you right click on the line between the two parts and select "remove pipe" from the menu. This brings the connection points together and puts the dimension line on automatically.
        Attachments
        Capture1.JPG52.3 KB
        Capture2.JPG85.5 KB
        Capture3.JPG18.7 KB
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Mladen Pavlovic Dec 9, 2013 9:09 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
It seems that creating one mate (outer edge) on gasket solves the issue, but only if the same logic is applied to the face of the flange as well. Otherwise it will not work. IN return this reduces number of mates present in assembly, as well solves the issue of gasket and flange faces not mating properly.

As i had discussion with my VAR, the "envelopes" that are created when mate references are present are part of the problem. SW has problems deciding which mate reference to use when you have those envelopes interfere. Plus if the mates are similar (or the same, as in case of flange+gasket joint), problem is even bigger.

So i guess that when you create 1 mate per reference, the envelopes are not interfering, and problem does not show up.

hopefully this was clear enough.
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