5 Replies Latest reply on Apr 26, 2013 12:27 PM by Steve Keith

    Change Custom Sheet Size with minimum pain?

    Steve Keith

      I have searched help and forums for answers before posting.


      I am dealing with the sloppy work of multiple predecessors.  I am an infrequent user (~10 hours/month) who has only completed the essentials.  I am particularly inept at the drawing side of SW given my decades of use, indoctrination and immersion in AutoCAD (starting with version 9) for drawings.  I am also a stubborn old dog.


      I have a well established title block and border template that fits perfectly in ANSI D, 34x22 format with a 0.5" margin.  I have MANY MANY MANY drawings from predecessors that have the same title block/border placed seemingly at random on a 34 x 23.62204724in custom sheet size, though they tend to be aligned close to the top and extremely close to the right edges.


      When I change the custom sheet size to 34x22, it clips the sheet boundary at the top and right, thus the borders of the drawing are out of the sheet boundary.  It requires two steps to fix:


      1) manually moving the border and entities associated with the sheet format - generally pretty straight forward.

      2) manually moving the views/entities on the sheet - generally a nightmare of epic proportions.


      Inevitably, there are stragglers or entities not associated with a view that get left behind with unpredictable results, e.g., datum labels that refuse to be moved, etc.  It doesn't seem to matter whether I attempt to move entities by delta X and Y input or by From/to selections.  I realize this stems from poor practices to begin with, but I'm trying to minimize the pain associated with making things look presentable, and I only want to engage in these activities when some technical necessity requires a drawing revision.


      In short, given the above situation, is there an easy way to move an entire sheet/sheet-format a given x and given y distance and have everything move in an orderly fashion?  I just care that the drawing is visually centered on the given page.  I don't care that everything is done according to best practices.


      As a secondary question, and probably a noobish one at that, is there a way to take an existing entity and associate it with a given view so it will move with the view?





        • Re: Change Custom Sheet Size with minimum pain?
          Steve Keith

          Forgot to mention, SW2012 SP5.0

          • Re: Change Custom Sheet Size with minimum pain?
            Glenn Schroeder



            Welcome to the forum.


            For your main problem, I'm not sure I followed all of it, but it sounds like you are editing the sheet format multiple times on multiple drawings.  Maybe you already know this, but once you get one the way you like, you can save that sheet format and use it to update other drawings.  Would that help?  I'm at home now and probably won't get back to the forum for a day or so, but if that will help, and you need help with it, I'm sure someone else will chime in.


            For your secondary question, yes, you can move an entity to associate it with another drawing view.  If it has a leader, like a notation or weld symbol, you can click on it to highlight it, then click on the small blue box at the end of the leader arrow and drag and drop it onto a line or point of the new drawing view.  That will automatically attach it to the other view.  If it's a note that doesn't have a leader, then you can cut and paste it onto the other one.  Just make sure that the dotted line box is showing on the view you're moving it to so that you know that view is active.

              • Re: Change Custom Sheet Size with minimum pain?
                Steve Keith



                Thanks for the response.  With regards to your first paragraph, no.  That's not what I'm talking about.  I have an existing drawing with a 34x22 border poorly placed on a 34x24 sheet, typically aligned at the top right with .6 and .2 margins, respectively.  I don't want the extra space printed, so I reduce the sheet size to 34x22.  This "clips" the top right of the border and leaves the white space at the bottom and left.


                Moving the border and associated entities to be centered on the "new" sheet (0.5" margins all around) while editing sheet format is generally easy; however, moving the items on the sheet itself is a pain as ctrl-a won't grab the views, so I can't move them with the other entities (notes, etc.).  Sometimes attached things like leaders and datum labels will behave in an odd fashion, i.e., not moving in the way one would expect.  I can't see a way to move a view in any way but free-form, i.e., if I want to move a view exactly -.3 in X and -1.52 in Y, I don't have an option - I just have to place it visually.


                With regards to your second paragraph, I'm aware of the techniques you describe, but I was looking for a more convenient method.  When there are 50+ oddly formatted (predecessor SW drafting technique creativity is astounding) and/or unattached entities, it's a real pain to attach them to a view via those techniques.  It would be optimal if there were a way to ctrl-click all the offending entities and then "attach" them to an existing view.


                Again, I'm a bit of a noob in comparison to those that work with SW daily, and I'm dealing with the fallout of bad practices over the years.  I was hoping one of you gurus might know if a shortcut or obscure way to accomplish my goals.





                  • Re: Change Custom Sheet Size with minimum pain?
                    John Burrill

                    Steve I'm a little bit thrown off by your mention that your selection set for your border includes leader notes and datums.

                    It sounds like you're trying to adjust the entire drawing to fit on the sheet instead of the just the sheet format.  Under the assumption that you haven't been given this advice, when you're adjusting a sheet format in a drawing, don't worry about the stuff associated with drawing views, that will move when you move the drawing view.  If you have 2D details or other graphics in the drawing, you can tie that to an an empty drawing view to make it more convienient to manage.  Second, you want to put your borders in the sheet format to protect them from accidental modifications and maintain the spacing with respect to your paper area that you're trying to achieve.

                    As for tricks that might make manipulating your border geometry and annotations easier:

                    I have found-especially when working with imported AutoCAD geometry, that making a SolidWorks block (very similar to an AutoCAD block but you don't have to name it) of the border goemetry makes it much easier to manipulate.

                    I'll often insert an AutoCAD drawing as a SolidWorks block, position it, scale it and then when I'm satisfied that it's exactly what I want, I'll explode it.  It works in sketches for dealing with large chunks of imported geometry as well.

                    Hope that helps.

                      • Re: Change Custom Sheet Size with minimum pain?
                        Steve Keith



                        Please set aside your confustion as I said no such thing.  When speaking of leaders I was referring to items on the sheet.  Border is contained in format view.  I clearly segregated them above.  Additionally, another part of my issue is that things that should be associated with drawing views aren't associated with them, so they don't move with the view as I've already mentioned.


                        Clearly, words, or my command of them, are insufficient for this situation.  Let's strip it to the bare necessities and move to pictures:


                        EXISTING DRAWING THAT I NEED TO REVISE AND WOULD LIKE TO CLEAN UP QUICKLY.  Sheet format before (note top-right alignment and empty space at bottom):


                        Open Sheet Properties, change "Custom Sheet Size" from 34x24 to 34x22.  Back to Sheet view, end result:


                        Top is clipped and everything is too close to the right border.  I want it centered.  Suggestions?