35 Replies Latest reply on Jul 31, 2013 5:23 PM by Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

    Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?

    Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

      Our engineering team currently does not rebuild every assembly and part they work on. We have multiple parts used in multiple assemblies. If a part is modified on the lower level, we currently do not open the other assemblies and rebuild them. This has been going on for years, and it is now being more of a problem. The big problem for us is that we have PDF documents that get created when a drawing gets put in the released state. This PDF task generates off of the quickview, unfortuntaely. As a result, we have potential for errors since that quick view does not rebuild the drawing before creating the PDF. The other issue I have seen is that some users in the vault with the edrawings preview tab see incorrect parts, assemblies, drawings because it has not been rebuilt. But on the contrary, many people are seeing file needs to be rebuilt throughout the organization, but them not being engineers, cannot really determine if the drawing is accurate or it is a false message, meaning it does say it needs to be rebuilt, but the rebuild process does not actually update the drawing in thsi sense because maybe a simple note was added on the assembly, or somethign was hidden.


      I am in the process of coming up with a plan to change to have our engineers blocked from checking in until they rebuild, but it looks like it may add TONS of overhead to our team.

        • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
          Richard Gergely

          I think without having everything rebuilt properly you are risking a lot more than extra time initially on the job.


          I can't comment on what you do because I haven't seen it or been involved but if you reference something and things change it needs to be updated to see the full implecations.

          • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
            Peter Farnham

            You should have at least one person running the epdm as admin and that being their main job.


            If you are using revision control, how can you be sure what revision you are working too if the documents are not rebuilt?


            Revision control should work up the levels and be checked-in as required.

            If "Part A" has a dimension or material changed, then it must be rebuilt as it can not reflect in a drawing or in a BOM correctly in an assembly drawing.

            Do you not show document revisions in the BOM?


            Not only are your documents incorrect as not rebuilt, but you revisions and BOM's are also incorrect.


            You should see a "file is not rebuilt" at check-in, so maybe you could start your rules there.


            I would say that all parts and their drawings should be rebuilt and checked-in as the minimum and have the "open to latest revision" as default on the epdm.


            This is going to take someone with a strong stick to change the bad habits.

            • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
              Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

              Good input. Few more details. We have LARGE assembies, made up of numerous subassemblies. This is well over 100. The list is outrageous. We make big machines.

              Few scenarios.


              Scenario A

              UserA creates ASSYA that users Part1  in year 2010.

              UserB creates ASSYB that uses Part1 in year 2011.

              UserB submits a rebuild on ASSYB that rebuilds part1 also. This ends up breaking ASSYA and stating it needs to be rebuilt, even though nothing changed.


              Scenario B

              Sam works on a number of sub assemblies and then checks it in. Bob opens an assemby that uses the subassembly, but Sam forgot to hide a piece in the sub assembly. Therefor, Bob has to open that sub assembly hide the piece, rebuild it. If the sub assembly is used in multiple larger assemblies, then they have to go open each one and rebuild. It takes such a long time. Keep in mind with 15 engineers anyone could be checking out and working on something then they would have to keep bugging other members to check it in, so they can check it out and rebuild. This is also true for color changes also, ex a part that was purple needs to be red or green.


              Remember this a huge scenario. Think of an assemby that uses 40 sub assemblies. And some of those sub assemblies are used in multiple assemblies. A change on the lower, means we have to go through each adn single one and rebuild.

                • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                  Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

                  We show document revisions on the actual drawing.


                  For revision control, we do use revision A, B, etc.

                    • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                      Peter Farnham

                      This is simplifying it a bit but you could:-


                      For Scenario A checkout "as built", if built correctly before check-in, then no rebuild required on check-out.


                      Scenario B,


                      Sam needs to make a config and suppress the part, not hide or just sack Sam, lol  (just kidding!)

                      So more instructions needs to be given, if he forgets then, shoot him! (ok maybe a bit extreme, lol)


                      Or you have Epdm (works in WPDM too) and so you could schedule a task to rebuild assemblies and drawings each day.


                      Again for the colours, make configs.


                      Your last comment is correct, a necessary evil when using revision control or even just to use the correct document.


                      It is all in the control, we also have assemblies many sub-assemblies deep and there is no easy way out.

                      It is a full time job on it's own to keep it updated.


                      Do you leave it up to the engineer to "allow" a design change or do you use DCRF's (Design change request form)?

                      These should control it better.


                      They way you are doing things does make for rapid turn-around, but only at the beginning, now you are hitting the reasons why document control is important from the start, (been there!), and so can preach from experience.


                      Your last post explains a lot too, We use "A" to "B"  ect for changes that alters the product, be it part or assembly.

                      We use 01 to 99 for changes that do not alter the product like spelling mistakes or template changes for example.

                      This way at least they know they are getting the lastest revision that affects the product, even if it is at A-05 for example and they are using A-02.


                      A revision table on the drawing A, B, C ect is also helpful to see what has been changed and to see if it affect the final product.

                        • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                          Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

                          What does that mean, checkout as built?


                          I heard about the scheduling, but the case there the user does it? And the problem with that is if the user schedules it, and another team member has some parts that the original user needs, its not going to work.


                          The engineer just makes a change as needed today.


                          Yes I see where document change request could be helpful also. Def a big change in our environment to move that direction.


                          So in scenario A, if part1 was rebuilt before being released with ASSYA, and ASSYB gets created later with part1, any verison changes will make it trigger a rebuild. How about revision? If a revision is made, does it trigger rebuiilds?

                            • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                              Peter Farnham

                              When you check out a document you have choices, as built or latest revision.


                              So assembly A was built in 2010, if checked out as built only the revisions that were used to build that assembly will be opened.

                              If checked out as latest revisions, then any parts or sub assemblies that are newer will be opened, which will require a rebuild.


                              Now there is another problem that will cause a rebuild and that is if you have upgraded to 2013 for example as all the documents would have to be updated anyway.


                              The user should not really update the vault , that is the job of the administrator. Thats why you have vault lock, so you can even update overnight.


                              The problem I see with allowing every engineer to change documents as they like, is that you are forever chasing tails, as there is no control.


                              DCR's will help to control this.


                              That is what revision is for, to show a change in the document. To be fair if a document needs to change physically that much, then a new document should be made, easy with save as copy.


                              You use different document numbers I take it?


                              You should not have the same number for two different assemblies for example.

                      • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                        Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

                        But upgrading files is one thing, what he is talking about is the scheduler.

                        • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                          Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

                          OK thanks for input good feedback.


                          Here is the major problem I forgot to mention. Yes we have 100s of projects, the problem is that these projects have 100s of assemblies. Just because it is a new project doesn't mean that in that project folder all the files it needs resides there. Parts for a project are scattered ALLL OVER the file structure.

                          When I ran the file upgrade utility to upgrade files to 2012, it ran for 2+ days. I had 3 powerful solidstate laptops as work machines and it still went on 2+ days. I had to stop it, and we tried a few other times with no luck. Finally we only ended up doing released files. So one of my issues is that the process to even do it takes so long. As stated before, unfortunately i have files scattered everywhere

                          As far as the file ugprade util vs solidworks scheduler, correct me if I am wrong but the file upgrade, which does rebuild and save to latest version, cannot be scheduled. That being said, ieven if I told it to do a project, it wont stay in that folder as there are files all over the vault.


                          As far as daily checkin, We do check in, but most people keep checked out.

                          • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                            Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

                            The main reason why our engineers are upset is because they should not have to rebuild if something was hidden,, and it does not change the drawing. But of course I educate them and tell them that ANYTHING changes, we need to rebuild. So they blame that it is a Software issue, and that EPDM should see if the drawing is actually changed before saying it needs to be rebuilt. Then we take a step back and look, and it's not just drawings, we are talking about parts and assemblies. I'm sure if EPDM could trigger a rebuild only if something on the drawing changed, they would be happy. But, from day 1, that is not how solidworks built their application.

                            • Re: Rebuilds, how do you guys deal with it?
                              Shankaran Shanmugabaskaran

                              Oh I didn't forget about this fun post. Everything has just stirred up again so I will be on this full fledge. I put in another discussion, specifically on CONFIGURATIONS. How do you guys deal with that? That adds more of a headache when used with Solidworks EPDM. You have to open every single configuration now.