32 Replies Latest reply on Aug 27, 2013 5:50 PM by Andrew Brown

    Issue with Plane rotation

    Chris Kalnasy

      Essentially,

       

      This has happened to me more than one time now and I cannot figure this out.  I need to rotate a plane 180 degrees so that my origin is essentially mirrored where it is on two of the axis.  The reason why is if I use the 'Normal To' command, the plane will be upside from where I want, and if I click it again, it will just flip to the opposite side, which is not a remedy to this issue.  I know if you have three points that make up a plane, you can select them in a opposite order and it will flip which side is the positive side of the plane, but in my case, I have one single point and the front plane for a reference.  Selecting them in reverse order does nothing.

       

      Any help is surely appreciated.

        • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
          Jeremy Feist

          I don't know how to set "up" within a plane. but did you know you can select 2 references for the normal to comand? first select the face/plane you want to normal to, then ctrl-select a second reference that will define the "top" then hit normal to.

            • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
              Chris Kalnasy

              Hopefully the attached can explain it better.  Here is the most recent time I ran into this.  I found a nice surfacing tutorial online I wanted to work through to get some more seat time with surfacing.  This would be a top view of a plane, with its blueprints shown.  The top mid plane is the plane I am having an issue with.  I need it to have it rotated 180 so that the nose would be at the top of screen, and tail at the bottom.Drone.JPG

                • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                  RICH PAUZA

                  I had a similar problem - I needed to rotate my origin 22.5 degrees - and keep all off my sketch references the same - had to re draw the base sketch to get what I wanted.

                   

                  What if you used the mirror function & added a new coordinate system...?

                   

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  Rich

                    • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                      Chris Kalnasy

                      Rich, I am sure that could work.  The thing that annoys me, is the tutorial has the sketch pictures already applied to the downloaded part, and I followed the video to this point, and everytime the guy sketches on this plane I am back wards to what he is doing.  It is just one of those little things that I want to know how to do it because it seems simple.  I followed exactly how he created this plane.  So I am unsure why my plane is having these issues.

                    • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                      Lenny Bucholz

                      Chris Kalnasy wrote:

                       

                      Hopefully the attached can explain it better.  Here is the most recent time I ran into this.  I found a nice surfacing tutorial online I wanted to work through to get some more seat time with surfacing.  This would be a top view of a plane, with its blueprints shown.  The top mid plane is the plane I am having an issue with.  I need it to have it rotated 180 so that the nose would be at the top of screen, and tail at the bottom.Drone.JPG

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      if you put the nose up on the top plane and build your model, the tail will face you in an iso view.

                       

                      see this pic below it is in an iso view:

                       

                      sw3dpub-nautilus-default-29247.jpg

                  • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                    Glenn Schroeder

                    Check Deepak's second post, second paragraph in this discussion.  I believe it will help you.

                      • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                        Chris Kalnasy

                        Glenn,

                         

                        His description is relating to the viewing of the plane, not the actual spacial orientation of the plane itself.

                          • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                            Glenn Schroeder

                            That method will rotate a model, which is what I thought you wanted.  To test I opened a new part, sketched a triangle with the point at the top, and extruded it.  I hit the front view button from my Standard Views toolbar and the triangle faced me with the point at the top.  I Ctrl selected the front face, then the bottom, and hit my Normal to button (the method Jeremy described above) and then followed the instructions in Deepak's post.  After doing that when I hit the Normal To button the triangle faced me with the point at the bottom.  If that isn't what you want then please explain further.

                              • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                Chris Kalnasy

                                Glenn,

                                 

                                That method, after trying it the way you explain half works, and half doesnt.  It does make the triangle flip upside down, and everytime you hit normal to, it just flips between the front and rear face, keeping the triangle flipped.  But if you hit any other view (i.e. isometric view), then return to the normal to buttom, it flips right back the way you had to from the start.  Which I believe is proving that this method is only for a viewing change, not actually changing the planes spacial orientation in regards to the origin.

                                 

                                Now anyone could easily do the method we just did here with the triangle or whatever part it could be, and make a new view, but I am just curious as to how to rotate the plane around the origin essentially.  I did try it on the plane tutorial I was using, and it worked as the triangle did, I changed to an iso view, but as soon as I returned to the normal to view of that exact plane in question, it still was upside down.  I hope that explains it well.

                                  • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                    Glenn Schroeder

                                    I just tried it again.  After changing the orientation I went to another view, then back to the front view.  The triangle still pointed down.  When you were following Deepak's directions, after choosing the new desired view, did you hit the Update Standard Views button?  It should have given you a warning that this action would change all the views.

                                      • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                        Chris Kalnasy

                                        Glenn,

                                         

                                        This method is correct for changing the view.  I agree completely.  But in relation to the origin, no it does not work.  My local solidworks distributor and tech support also does not have an answer for this issue.  I did not know you could do what you have shown here though.  Like I said, the ability to rotate the actual plane about the origin or an axis is what we need to have done here for this exact issue, but who is to say something like this wouldnt be useful as well.  Like in the plane task manager, have the option to rotate it, just like how you can flip a dimension to the negative side on an extrusion.

                              • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                Matt Wallace

                                Try this:

                                 

                                (Hmm, can't seem to insert an image)

                                 

                                Sketch tools -> modify.  There is a little dialog and you can move and rotate your origin.  Drop the little black crosshair on your origin and rotate 180deg.  I think that will do what you want.

                                  • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                    Chris Kalnasy

                                    Matt,

                                     

                                    This method will rotate a sketch, yes, but it does not rotate the plane.  I was aware of this method, but it does not solve the plane issue I am having.  Thanks for the idea though, its the same thing our SW tech support guys said to us.

                                      • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                        Dwayne Peyton

                                        I'm pretty sure that Solidworks does not do this. It doesn't matter anyway because you don't extrude up or down according to the top or bottom of the plane - it's just a surface in space - you extrude or what have you in a direction away from the sketch - the negative function only tells it to go the other way. This is not a sketch exactly. It is a picture inserted into a sketch. I don't understand why you want to do this anyway. If all the sketches were all downloaded together as a prt file, why would you need to flip one of them? If you rotate any of them 180*, then that one plane is at the wrong end of the other two. I believe I know the tutorial you are talking about - the SWx user in this case hits the normal to button, then he rotates it (follow the reference triade).....you can hear him typing (using hotkeys probably). I just think he forgets to mention that little rotation step.

                                    • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                      Mark Kaiser

                                      I really think this is a minor detail in the general overall scheme of modeling, but here's a suggestion that might work.

                                       

                                      1. Orient your model so your looking at the 'front' view, in the orientation you desire.

                                      2. Hit the spacebar so the view orientation dialog comes up.

                                      3. Select '*Front', then hit the 'update standard views' button.

                                       

                                      Don't know if that will work or not, but might help you out sometime.

                                        • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                          Glenn Schroeder

                                          Mark,

                                           

                                          I had that discussion with him yesterday.  See above.

                                          • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                            Andrew Brown

                                            No matter what we do, or what we try to change, it still defaults to Y-up orientation.  No matter how your part is orientated, no matter how your plane is set, Y is up.  Even if you have your part all set to Z-up, if you try to add text to it, the text is still orientated Y-up.  Sure you might be able to get your sketches rotated, but we shouldn't have to resort to this!  While I've only been in the manufacturing industry a dozen years, not once has Y ever been up.  There isn't enough room in this forum for me to express just how much I hate this "feature" of SolidWorks.

                                              • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                                Lenny Bucholz

                                                Andrew Brown wrote:

                                                 

                                                No matter what we do, or what we try to change, it still defaults to Y-up orientation.  No matter how your part is orientated, no matter how your plane is set, Y is up.  Even if you have your part all set to Z-up, if you try to add text to it, the text is still orientated Y-up.  Sure you might be able to get your sketches rotated, but we shouldn't have to resort to this!  While I've only been in the manufacturing industry a dozen years, not once has Y ever been up.  There isn't enough room in this forum for me to express just how much I hate this "feature" of SolidWorks.

                                                 

                                                Andrew the norm for solid modelers is that Z comes towards you, just like a sheet of paper on your desk, all your monitor is is that sheet of paper now hanging on the wall. since you are sketching on a sheet of paper your pencil is always in Z isn't it?

                                                 

                                                Remember you can override the way the view of your part is originated using the spacebar and to make the veiw you want as top to control the new origination.

                                                 

                                                just so you know most standalone CAM software that takes native SW files will bring in the parts on to their top plane, if you model your parts with Y as your Z, the CAM software will then bring the parts in the wrong origination.

                                                  • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                                    Andrew Brown

                                                    Lenny Bucholz wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Andrew the norm for solid modelers is that Z comes towards you, just like a sheet of paper on your desk, all your monitor is is that sheet of paper now hanging on the wall. since you are sketching on a sheet of paper your pencil is always in Z isn't it?

                                                    Of course the "pencil" is always Z, but the difference is, for me the XY plane is the Top View, not the Front View.

                                                     

                                                    Regardless, no matter how the views are changed in SW, it always reverts to Y-up (such as a 1 surface "normal to").  I never had this many annoyances with Solid Edge, but that was a long time ago.

                                                     

                                                    Either way, we don't use native SW files for CAM since our SW is updated yearly (to keep up with new customer files) whereas our CAM software is over a decade old and does everything we need it to do.  If it ain't broke, right?

                                                      • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                                        Lenny Bucholz

                                                        Andrew Brown wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Lenny Bucholz wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Andrew the norm for solid modelers is that Z comes towards you, just like a sheet of paper on your desk, all your monitor is is that sheet of paper now hanging on the wall. since you are sketching on a sheet of paper your pencil is always in Z isn't it?

                                                        Of course the "pencil" is always Z, but the difference is, for me the XY plane is the Top View, not the Front View.

                                                         

                                                        Regardless, no matter how the views are changed in SW, it always reverts to Y-up (such as a 1 surface "normal to").  I never had this many annoyances with Solid Edge, but that was a long time ago.

                                                         

                                                        Either way, we don't use native SW files for CAM since our SW is updated yearly (to keep up with new customer files) whereas our CAM software is over a decade old and does everything we need it to do.  If it ain't broke, right?

                                                        Also a planer face has it's own XYZ normals, so now that even throws you off more where Vertical is at an angle or Horizontal to the world XYZ...................................... it just doesn't matter, if you use top in your CAM model on the top plane in SW, just select top from the tree the start your sketch and it will start sketching on the top, but remember the bottom of the screen is the front of the part.

                                                         

                                                        So you use the top view for your front view on your drawing then?

                                                         

                                                        As for CAM, you can be up to date for free, HSMWorks and DelCam for SW have 2.5D that a aswome and it don't matter how you model your parts or others model their as you can make your own corrodinate for machining and if the parst change just regen and post...done! Try it it's pretty sweet just did a part, one op in surfcam would have taken me about an hour, took me 15 minutes, would have been 5 but I was messing with different types of toolpaths, so the if it ain't is not an option anymore to be competitive.

                                                          • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                                            Andrew Brown

                                                            Lenny Bucholz wrote:

                                                             

                                                            So you use the top view for your front view on your drawing then?

                                                             

                                                            My top view/plane is XY.  My front view/plane is XZ.  My right view/plane is is YZ.  Standard 3-axis coordinates for machining here.  Z up/down, X left/right, Y front/back.

                                                             

                                                            Fortunately, I don't have to do CAM any more, but back when I did, I used EdgeCAM.

                                                             

                                                            My "paper" is flat on the desk with Z up, not stuck on the wall with Z coming out at me.

                                                              • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                                                Lenny Bucholz

                                                                then turn the reference triad off so you don't see it and draw your parts in an iso view orientation and sketch on the top plane.

                                                                 

                                                                so what if you have a meeting and you need to draw on a dry eraser white board Z is now coming at you off the wall, correct

                                                                 

                                                                Reference Triad

                                                                 

                                                                A triad appears in part and assembly documents to help orient you when viewing models. You can also use it to change the view orientation. You can hide the triad but you cannot use it as an inference point.

                                                                Reference_Triad.gif

                                                                You use a different triad to manipulate sketch entities, models, assembly components, etc. See Triad.

                                                                 

                                                                To display or hide the reference triad, click Tools > Options > System Options > Display/Selection. Select or clear Display reference triad, then click OK.

                                                                 

                                                                To change the view orientation with the reference triad:

                                                                • Do one of the following:
                                                                  Select an axisSee the view normal to the screen.
                                                                  Select an axis that is normal to the screenChange the view direction 180 degrees.
                                                                  Shift + selectRotate 90 degrees about the axis.
                                                                  Ctrl + Shift + selectRotate 90 degrees in the opposite direction.
                                                                  Alt + selectRotate about the axis by the Arrow keys increment specified in Tools > Options > System Options > View.
                                                                  Ctrl + Alt + selectRotate in the opposite direction.
                                                    • Re: Issue with Plane rotation
                                                      Bernie Daraz

                                                      I have had this happen to me in relation to models for Circuitworks, they come in, in a different orientation. I agree that the first thought is to change the plane causing you the issue, though you have to change the related planes as well. So if you swap one plane for another, the other planes still reference the original.

                                                       

                                                      One more way is to insert the file into an assembly and orientate the part as is required and resave it as a part.