18 Replies Latest reply on Sep 5, 2012 7:56 AM by Mark Kaiser

    thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan

    Mark Kaiser

      OK, so I'm not simulating a cookie on a greased baking pan, but something similar.  I have an aluminum part resting on a steel bed.  The bed is fixed, the aluminum part is resting freely on the bed.  Meaning the aluminum part is not bolted, snapped, or held in place in any way, shape or form on the steel bed, it just sits there.  We heat the bed and part to 400 F.  I would like to know how the part deforms.

       

      I know how to import thermal studys into static studys.  I know how to set temperature at zero strain.  What I don't know is how to set up the contacts between the part and bed, and have something realistic happen.  I also don't run simulation much, and this would be my first venture into thermal simulation.

       

      What else do I not know, and how can I set this up?

       

      SW 2010

        • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
          Richard Wehmeyer

          It depends on just what you want to get out of it.  The differance in thermal resistance will greatly depend on the surface texture of each component.  If it is really rough you may need to discover the amount of thermal resistance before you procede.  If the surfaces are highly polished you could use a bonded contact.  This bond is not a physical bond and will not be included in the static study.

          • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
            Anthony Botting

            Hi Mark: I assume this is a transient analysis, i.e., you need the deformation field as a function of time and temperature?

              • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                Mark Kaiser

                Actually, if I had the final deformation, at the end of a time period, that would be good enough.  Looking for how much a 5 foot long piece of aluminum (cross section 2.38" x 3.00" overall) will twist, or twist and bow, when heated to 400 F. 

                  • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                    Anthony Botting

                    Hi Mark: I might be "reaching", here, but it sounds like you are needing a "Steady-state" analysis. If that is the case, all components should be at thermal equilibrium (at 400F) at the end of the time period, and since the aluminum component is resting w/o further restraints, I would expect it to expand uniformly, except normal to the surface on which it rests.

                    In that case you could just use a plain "static" study and set the component temperature to 400F. Install a "normal to surface" fixture on the surface that is resting (this will allow the surface to expand parallel to itself, but not normal to itself); turn-on the "soft-spring" option to stabilize the model; set the zero strain temperature, and run the static study. You should be able to plot stress and observe zero-stress field, and then plot displacement and observe deflections. Does that help?

                      • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                        Mark Kaiser

                        Yes, that helps, but I can't seem to find the normal to surface fixture.  I'm running SW 2010, is it possible this was added after SW 2010?  Once I do find the normal to surface option, does this option make the surface remain planar?  I assume there are situations where a surface would not remain planar at the end of the study.  Therefore I am wondering if setting the part on the steel plate is more realistic? 

                         

                        I did find the soft spring option.

                         

                        Really need to convince my employer to get me to some training, appreciate the help.

                          • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                            Anthony Botting

                            Yes. There should be a Fixture type named "Symmetry" or "Roller/Slider" in 2010. Both will do the same thing as "normal to surface" for a flat surface. It holds a flat surface planar, and lets it contract or expand in-plane. {side note: roller/slider can act like a roller bearing on a curved surface}.

                            Holding the surface planar can be a problem if you expect the surface to lift away from its resting position. The fixture will not let it lift away. But for this problem, since the component is at thermal equilibrium, I would expect the resting surface to remain flat.

                             

                            In the properties of the study, I found an option "use soft spring to stabilize model" (attached image). Is there something like or similar to that in properties of study, in SW 2010?properties.png

                          • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                            Mark Kaiser

                            I may have it, does this displacment result look more realistic?

                             

                            results1.png

                              • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                                Anthony Botting

                                Hi Mark. It does, assuming the entire thermal mass of the component is held uniformly at one temperature (i.e., not only on outer surfaces, but all throughout the volume of the component). You might do a unidirectional hand calculation estimate just to check. It should be pretty-much spot-on with the FEA results.

                                Try:

                                [change in length from middle section to one end]=[coefficient of thermal expansion] X [original length from middle section to one end] X [change in temperature].

                                Where "change in temperature" is presumably 400 F - "zero strain" temperature. So if the "zero strain" temperature is 75F, then the change in temperature would be 325.

                                 

                                The "change in length from middle section to one end" should be equivalent to the magnitude (absolute value of) displacement value at either end of the component, in the longitudinal direction. So, if "X" is in the longitudinal direction, just create a displacement plot of component "UX".

                                The middle section should show 0 (zero), and one end will be a positive change in length in the +X direction. The opposite end should show a negative change in length since it will be expanding in the -X direction.

                            • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                              Jerry Steiger

                              Mark,

                               

                              If the part is going to be at a uniform temperature, why would there be any twist or bow? It seems like that would only happen if you have internal stresses in the part.

                               

                              Jerry Steiger

                                • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                                  Mark Kaiser

                                  The steady state uniform temp study was just step 1, to get me started in thermal analysis with SW.  Realistically, the part gets cycled in and out of an oven, with another part resting on it each time it goes in the oven.  If I had some more experience with thermal analysis, I might be able to say confidently what was going to happen before we stick a part in the oven, but that's what I get to find out.  Will be fun eventually.

                            • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                              Mark Kaiser

                              OK, I managed to do a thermal study, input the results into a static analysis, used global bonded, set the contact faces to no penetration, and ran the study, without errors.  Here's my displacement results.  If I understand correctly, all the red nodes moved approx. .03" from their original position.  So the part in question grew approx. .03"  away from where the two parts contact, and an approx. total of .06" wider and longer.  Am I understanding the displacement plot correctly?

                               

                               

                              results.png

                                • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                                  Richard Wehmeyer

                                  Sort of.  Use deformation in X and Y plots as well as the deformation magnitude plot. Instead of using the contacts though, I would do as Anthony suggested.  You can also set the "pan" as "excluded from analysis" also you can use the plot properties to change the deformation scale.  this will show the deformations drastically and using "animate" you can see it cycle (flex).

                                  • Re: thermal analysis-cookie on greased baking pan
                                    Anthony Botting

                                    Hi Mark: yes it sounds like you're interpreting the plot correctly. However, I am suspect of the deformation field. I would expect the unit, if it's at thermal equilibrium (steady-state), it would be 400F all-over, and thus expand uniformly everywhere. Similar to how a cookie sheet placed in an oven (resting on the grating), would expand uniformly. From the plot, it appears the contacts are "catching" on the ends of the component and the steel plate, preventing it from expanding uniformly - thus it curls. If you are running a transient analysis, then yes, I would expect the deformation field to look like the plot as shown, at some time before thermal equilibrium.