21 Replies Latest reply on Sep 27, 2006 9:55 PM by

    Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?

      Yes you did, unless you misunderstand the problem.

      The problem is that when the comb top line has a big jump (usually when it crosses the spline itself, indicating a change in convexity), it overshoots and creates a shape which is not valid for a comb. In the attached picture, the orange line should go through the point of inflection, but it doesn't. It should not cross the red line, but it does. Because the top connecting line is a spline, it reacts the same way splines react, which means when you have big jumps this close together, it will often overshoot where it is supposed to go.

      If your point is that somehow, ID people universally will not make a shape that changes curvature quickly and even inflects, then I simply disagree. Although compared to other problems in the software, this one is minor, saying no one would create a shape like that is not correct. It isn't even completely dependent on the spline, but also on the scale of the curvature. Both attached images are of the same section of the same unmodified spline. One image shows a big problem (comb2) and one has no problem at all (comb3).

      The problem is likely to be potentially worse in 2007 because you can now change the denisity of the comb as well as the scale.
        • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
          Yes; again we plead beg and scream to have the connecting line back!
          • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
            I have yet to find anyone that likes this way as well. Please put the connecting line back on. My guess is more conspiracy theory. My guess is that the top line made a graphics problem and they removed it because of that hoping we all would not be irratated. If thats the case, give me my graphics issue back and give me the connecting line too. Please!

            Ken Maren
            President
            SolidWorks Milwaukee Area Resource Team
            Worldwide PhotoWorks User Group
            (works at)--->>> Muderlak Design, Inc.
            www.muderlakdesign.com
            • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
              Matt and all,
              Yeah, I don't get it, as with many decisions made.
              It makes absolutely no sense why it was removed.
              The question of wanting it was in that questionaire,.. its funny, a questionaire to ask the users about what they removed?.
              Sounds like the developer (who is this person??) is telling them what to do and what is best?
              ..
              • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                I imagine it was a rather simple thing to do.....comment out the code that runs the approximated curve. Where as fixing the issues you mentioned would probably take considerable more effort (though certainly an important effort).

                Of course, adding a checkbox with additional code to toggle it off and on is not as simple....thought I doubt difficult.


                Jason
                SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXp SP2
                UG NX 2.0.2.2 on Win2000 SP3
                • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                  Almost forgot about the no trimming of a offset spline...
                  • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                    I'm not disagreeing about priorities and existing issues etc. I'm just saying I can see how it may have easy to do. With the new boundary and freeform additions, the programmers where already in that area of code so it appears that changing the curvature comb display was an easy tweak. Those other things you mentioned weren't slated to be worked on and I can imagine that even a different group works with them.

                    This on the otherhand....well....haven't you ever tweaked a model you're revising for an ECO that wasn't really part of the change...maybe corrected a spelling error...or added some helpful info to the file "while you were in there and had write access". Maybe cause it was quick and easy and took only a moments time.

                    As for this issue...the stirring its caused says to me that it should be put back. I wouldn't even bother with the option to toggle as there isn't really that much of an advantage to having it off. Is there a performance hit with it on perhaps?




                    Jason
                    SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXp SP2
                    UG NX 2.0.2.2 on Win2000 SP3
                    • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                      Yes, I agree about that, but part of this new initiative for prioritizing problems, at least as I understood it, was to fix things that were important to customers, so that they didn't wind up spending time on obscure things that don't really have a business impact.

                      Was the comb cap wrong? Technically, yes. Does that have any business impact? No, not really. In fact, it could be argued that the fix has more negative business impact than the problem had. I thought this was exactly the kind of situation the new prioritization was meant to avoid. Mark asked everybody about this, and I can't imagine he got much support for the change. I'm not sure which side of the issue Mark was on, but it seems clear where users are.

                      What if we point out a problem with a feature like Toolbox. Will they stop the presses and remove Toolbox from the software? No, but people loose tons of data all the time to Toolbox. What about the Split feature. They haven't removed that yet. The Parting Surface function in the Mold Tools is far beyond cosmetically flawed, it is conceptually flawed, and I'm sure that taking that out of the software is just a few commented lines away as well.

                      I guess I'm just saying that I had thought that the priorities thing was getting sorted out for the better, but I'm less optimistic now. This is a simple thing with a minor cosmetic problem that is causing a lot of kvetching.
                      • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                        Mark,

                        That seems like a terribly small nit to pick when you can't trim offset splines, and sketch relations with splines are in the state they're in. How did that get higher on someone's business impact list than other things that *really* need fixing?

                        Matt
                        • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                          The curvature “plot” was intentionally turned off for 2007 splines. The reason that it was is that we have a problem with the way that they plotted as they approached the point of inflection in that they incorrectly represent curvature by inverting back on themselves. With the edition of the density control, you can get near the same visual feedback without the plot and without the error that it produces. For our product, as well as many of our competitors, the plot line is a line that is simply plotted through the end points of each of the combs, therefore, it is an approximation.

                          With that said, I understand you frustration with not having it there where it once existed and we are looking into possibly getting it put back in as a checkbox option.

                          You are all amazingly perceptive and all of you are right. It was a difference of opinion among development and that just happens from time to time. These comments are not new to us and we are taking them seriously.

                          Regards

                          Mark Biasotti
                          SolidWorks
                          • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                            Hum... I'm not sure how to take that. Just remember, I was a customer for 10 years.

                            Regards

                            Mark Biasotti
                            SolidWorks
                            • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                              Yeah I know......just having some fun with the "your side" comment. Now that you've gone over to the dark side, we get take jabs at you ever so often....just to keep you honest. ;P


                              Jason
                              SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXp SP2
                              UG NX 2.0.2.2 on Win2000 SP3
                              • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                Hey,

                                I know a workaround for this. Open a sketch. Create your spline offsets. Close the sketch. Open a second sketch on the same plane. Convert Entities the spline offset which you can now trim. Can't tell you how many times I've done this now. The biggest problem is when you make dramatic changes to the original spline (and possibly minute changes in some cases) you can invalidate the trim.

                                Dan Sommerfeld
                                • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                  Oh?

                                  ID users don't make splines which change inflection?
                                  • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                    on 2006 30 16:58 neil wrote:
                                    > If any issue should concern SW about inaccuracy it should be the poor surface continuity and tangency along edges.
                                    > Unless you use the deviation tool you can be blissfully unaware these excursions exist. I guess Ed Eaton could
                                    > write a whole lot on that topic for us if he was enclined.

                                    I think in general that the surfaces created are smooth enough for most molded plastic parts ( if your designing car bodies you should be using something capable of higher degree surfaces than SW produces), but I totally agree that its the transitions across surfaces that need to be tightened up. The best continuity across boundaries ( in 2006 anyway) is achevied through the Fill Surface command. Loft is all over the place but takes much less processing time than Fill Surface does. Maybe this has some connection to how touchy 3-D spline tangent and curvature continuity is to acheive without getting an overconstrained warning?
                                    • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                      Mark....you becoming a politician? ;P

                                      Jason
                                      SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXp SP2
                                      UG NX 2.0.2.2 on Win2000 SP3
                                      • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                        We're listening and we're looking into it.

                                        Who side am I on - your's of course.

                                        Regards

                                        Mark Biasotti
                                        SolidWorks
                                        • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                          Paul,

                                          My impression of this is that it was done intentionally, and that there was a difference of opinion. I don't know anyone who wanted it removed, but there were some reasons (which I didn't think were particularly valid) for removing it.

                                          Whatever experiment someone was doing with this, I think the results are that users want the connector on the top of the curvature comb back.
                                          • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                            Simple questions,... (sp1 still not fixed!?)
                                            Why wasn't the comb perimeter edge put back?
                                            Why couldn't the developer fix what they broke?
                                            Why did the developer take away the outer perimeter in the first place, who asked them to remove it?
                                            When is it going to be fixed!?

                                            ..
                                            • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                              The continuity of surface boundaries is not unachievable. Pro-E consitently creates more accurate continuity and it doesn't take any longer to calculate. Alias and Rhino, while not parametric, both create higher order surfaces and curves and don't seem to stress over the calculations.
                                              • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                                I will keep that in mind. One of my favorite sound bites, when I start ranting and raving down the halls of SW:

                                                "Don't be sooo proud of this technological marvel you've constructed, it is no match for the power of the force."

                                                Regards

                                                Mark Biasotti
                                                SolidWorks
                                                • Spline Combs,.. why aren't the fixed?
                                                  May the force be with you Mark.....especially if it means helping out us users. Don't let those marketing guys/gals get too much of an upper hand. I know how they like those bells and whistles......no different where I work.

                                                  Jason
                                                  SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXp SP2
                                                  UG NX 2.0.2.2 on Win2000 SP3