59 Replies Latest reply on Aug 20, 2012 8:38 AM by Paul Passarelli

    BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane

    Paul Passarelli

      I found another bug! (big surprise)

       

      In the Feature Tree I have a folder called "sump sketches".  The folder contains two items sketch "F pipe shafts, pump", a plane "T` (lube line loci)".  Immediately below the folder is another sketch "T` lube line loci" drawn on the preceeding plane.

       

      Why can't I move the sketch into the folder???

       

      Dialog: Cannot reorder. Change would put child feature before parent feature.

       

      The sketch has one(1) parent, the plane!  The plane has one child, the sketch.  The plane has 2 parents; the Top plane (hence T`, and the sketch above it in the folder.

       

      I'd understand if this was not the way folders were menat to be used -- BUT -- I have other folders in the project that are doing the *EXACT SAME THING*.  This time it simply decided to stop working.

       

      Will someone tell the fools at SolidWorks Corporate to fix these ***STUPID*** problems!!!  My Feature Tree is several pages long.  I wish to use folders to maintain some semblence of order -- that's the idea isn't it???

       

      I realize that in the scope of bugs I usually complain about -- crashes destroying HOURS of work -- this is rather small potatoes.  But what the hell is the problem with s'ware Q-A?

        • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
          Kelvin Lamport

          What did you VAR say when informed about the problem?

            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
              Paul Passarelli

              Why would I bother the VAR with what is *CLEARLY* another software bug?  My VAR has nice folks working for them, but they insist on taking me thouugh steps that do *bothing* to find or fix the bug, and simply waste their and my collective time.  My VAR has performed *excellently* when assisting my to correct faults introdiced duting updates, or installation.  They have immense familairity with the various "settings" and locations of files, folders, trees, and registry sundries.

               

              Then again, why would I post in the forum?  Honestly, it was meant to annoy the SolidWorks Corporate people and point out yet another instance of disregard for quality!

               

              If I didn't have a deliverable to get out for quote, I'd be shopping for new CAD s'ware.  I sent this note to me VAR last week:

               

              Hi Len,
                Gonna hit you with some candid comments...
              I want to protect me investment in the drawings & designs I've creates over the past 7 years.  Right now I'm thinking that exporting all the parts as IGES files and running my SolidWorks disks through a paper shredder just might be the best approach.
              Today I lost another large amount of work because of a SolidWorks crash.  I don't know if/how SW compensates you, but, IMHO it's not enough.

               

              I dunno if {redacted} offers anything other than "SoiledWerkz" (sorry) but I've about had it.  I hope you share this with corporate, because I'll be taking my complaints *public* from now on --  I thought you deserved a heads up, that's all.
              If you want to talk about helping get me out of SolidWorks, then drop me a note.


              --Paul

               

              to which I received:

               

              Paul

               

              I’m passing along your emails to our Eng. Mgrs. to take a closer look at your problem.  I have over 150 customers in CT and I can honestly say that your case stands at the top of the list. If all my customers had the same problems I’d head to the hills to hide. We need to resolve your issues not that I’m promising anything but I will ask.  Stay tuned.

               

              Len

               

               

              Now, folks have tried to blame my 'puter, but that doesn't hold water when I'm sitting in a SolidWorks classroom and those machines collapse under the weight of my shadow.  I've got >20 years of s'ware development under my belt, and I know shitty s'ware development when I see it.  I've fired developers & Q-A people for allowing far less damaging bugs out of the shop.

               

              BTW, I'm joking about the paper shredder, I think I saw my shredder in the SolidWorks portfolio.  I'm worried the shredder would break if I drop a disk into its maw.

               

              "In vino veritas, in cervisia carmen, in aqua pisces."

            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
              Alin Vargatu

              Watch Edward Eaton’s presentation from SWW 2012: “Gaming the System - Tricky Tricks for Modeling and Editing”.

               

              It will help you master the folders in SolidWorks.

                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                  Paul Passarelli

                  I downloaded 25MB, read the PPT, and even went to YouTube.  I can't seem to identify how any of it applies to me of my issues.

                   

                  I'm "inventing" an engine, and creating a small table-top version of an engine that I've created a dozen times.  This version is a 2.5D model that will go out to rapid-prototyping.

                   

                  The most complex sketch feature in the whole engine is an eliptical extruded boss with an eliptical extruded cut whose depth is through all.  Or perhaps the 12 sided polygon that I used to create a series of 30 degree referende lines.  The most complex part is the piston that has fillets so the machinist knows which ball-end cutter to plunge cut the middle out of the bar-stock.  Unless it's my symbolic ball bearings that contain two bodies and look a a revolve around a sketch that looks a little like this [o]

                   

                  What I'm saying is that no part has more than 10 features, and most have 2-4 a derived sketch and an extrude or revolve.  Every part has an X,Y,Z axis (it's part of my template), and every new part is inserted on the Front Plane of the assembly.  I tried inserting parts on the planes of the assembly where they were sketched, but I lost too many models to "inside-out explosive decompression" during motion studied, so I stopped doing that a long time ago.

                    • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                      Alin Vargatu

                      Sorry Paul, I was under the impression that you were talking about a part level feature tree where you ordered some features in folders and when you try to place a sketch in a given folder you cannot do that due to parent/child relationship.

                      • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                        Greg Hynd

                        Can i see a screenshot of your assembly expert please. ?

                            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                              Kelvin Lamport

                              Why haven't you rebuilt/updated the assy to the latest version?

                               

                              Why no sub assys?  In many cases, using sub assys obviates the 'need' for folders.

                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                  Paul Passarelli

                                  Hi Kelvin,

                                   

                                    Gee, that's a great question...  But a better question is: Why hasn't SolidWorks rebuilt the assembly?!?!  And I have absolutely no way to even wrap my head around that head scratcher.

                                   

                                    If hitting CTRL+B or the rebuild icon or Shift+CTRL+B *didn't* cause the assembly to rebuild, then I must be missing something very fundamental in my skillset.

                                   

                                    The folders I want are for sketches & planes, not parts. 

                                   

                                    In the past I've put parts into sub-assys, but then face the challenge imposed by SolidWorks' external-reference limitations.  The parts retain the original assy info and cannot accept refereences from other sources.  It does not inspire confidence.  Say I need to add bolt holes to multiple parts... I can create assy-level holes, but the parts do not reflect the holes when rendered for production -- lame!

                                   

                                    So I create an assembly level sketch (skeleton) to define the holes... surprise, I cannot insert a derived sketch into the assy and derive another sketch into the parts...  I have to break the links, and sever my ability to propagate changes -- lame!

                                   

                                    The demonstrations look so smooth, but the reality is SOOO different -- lame!

                                   

                                  Believe me -- I WISH -- BOY DO I WISH -- that subassemblies worked better than they do!!!  My years of s'ware development trained me to think in hierarchies.  I have a project (now corrupt and unloadable) that employed 5-6 levels of subs that mirrored my BOM and parts numbering sysyem beautifully -- It was a think of beauty -- until...  You guessed it I had a SolidWorks crash and the whole tree  can no longer find its external references... Since then, the parts won't even render for lack of planes, surfaces, and directory paths that no longer exist -- lame!

                                   

                                    I don't even remember how many hundreds of hours of work are lost in that project.  If SolidWorks Corporate thinks that is a good argement for me having bought PDM or some other toys -- they really don't understand the engineering mentality.  {goofy voice} "Here's an inferior product to play with that fits your budget.  Why don't you play with it until you get hurt, then you can come see my salesman who will sell you a safer product, for more money than you want to spend." {my normal voice} Like I'm going to take *that* bait...

                                    • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                      Alin Vargatu

                                      Paul, have you taken any SolidWorks training?

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Paul Passarelli wrote:

                                       

                                       

                                        In the past I've put parts into sub-assys, but then face the challenge imposed by SolidWorks' external-reference limitations.  The parts retain the original assy info and cannot accept refereences from other sources.  It does not inspire confidence.

                                       

                                      Check this setting on:

                                       

                                      multiple context.jpg

                                       

                                       

                                      Paul Passarelli wrote:

                                       

                                      Say I need to add bolt holes to multiple parts... I can create assy-level holes, but the parts do not reflect the holes when rendered for production -- lame!

                                       

                                      Why is that? Did you use Assembly Hole Series or just simple cuts?

                                       

                                      The Hole Series are spectacular:

                                       

                                      http://help.solidworks.com/2012/English/solidworks/sldworks/hole_series.htm

                                       

                                      Even if you use simple cut extrudes or the Hole Wizard, you can propagate the features to the parts if so desired.

                                       

                                      http://help.solidworks.com/2012/English/solidworks/sldworks/assembly_feature_scope.htm

                                        • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                          Paul Passarelli

                                          I had training back in 2005.  I had to learn to differentiate the UIs from GibbsCAM, SmartCAM, SolidCAM, and MasterCAM, plus I had to unlearn the skills I had acquired for AutoCAD 2000i / Inventor.

                                           

                                          I haven't had any since because the boards deny access to customers that aren't on subscription.

                                           

                                          The "allow multiple external references" -- I know of it, it's not safe.  What else can I say, I do not trust the option.  I check it, and restart, jut like it says and the UI is unuseable.  Same thing happens when I select OpenGL in Software.  My VAR had me try these and several other things earlier in the year -- with negative results.

                                           

                                          Remember when I mentioned that my VAR has good people, but that the results are worthless?  I meant that.  We've tried many many things, and the result is that SolidWorks s'ware does what SolidWorks wants to do.

                                           

                                          I've done both, the siple cut, which never propagated to the part, and the newer one which *claims* to propagate to the parts, but which I have yet to observe actually do so.  Sure the parts have the hole in the assembly, but when viewed as parts or rendered as drawings, the holes are nowhere to be seen.  IMHO -- What's the point?

                                           

                                          Perhaps this little admonition is why it doesn't work:

                                           

                                          "You cannot use hole series on assembly components which are multiple instances of the same part, unless each instance is a separate configuration of the part."

                                           

                                          Or perhaps this: "Assembly feature cuts and holes affect the assembly only; the individual part files are not affected. You specify which components you want the feature to affect by setting the feature scope in the PropertyManager when you create the feature."

                                           

                                          Either way, these "features" whch are supposed to be productive, have caused me the opposite perception -- the more utility features I incorporatem the less stable my projects become.  I've uses nothing but basic capabilities and my folders are corrupt!  What am I supposed to think about "fancy" tools that transform the entire data set?  I **DO NOT TRUST** the s'ware!!!

                                            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                              Anna Wood

                                              The SolidWorks forums are open to all people.  One does not even need to own a seat of SolidWorks to participate.  All any one needs is an account on the SolidWorks customer portal.

                                               

                                              FWIW,

                                               

                                              Anna

                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                  Paul Passarelli

                                                  Hi Anna,

                                                   

                                                    My old VAR sold the franchise to my new/current VAR back in November, I think it took until February to get me activated in the forum.  Granted I didn't ask to be activated until I was *forced* to call the VAR to get around a dialog box that said: "SolidWorks blah blah blah has failed. Contact your reseller."

                                                   

                                                    It was very ugly.  I couldnt'y uninstall, I couldn't reinstall, I tried "repairing" Windows but nothing was found to be damaged. I didn't want to have to reinstall Windows as a means of clearing out a SolidWorks failure.  When I say their track record *SUCKS* I have a lot to base that assessment on.

                                                   

                                                    Besides, the last time I posted a 2005 question, back in 2009, no one replied, or even indicated that they read the question.  Besides by then I was pretty effective at avoiding actions that I knew were going to induce 2005 SP5 to crash.

                                                   

                                                    Last year when I bought 2011, it was like taking a trip through the time tunnel -- work, work, work -- BANG!!!  The old VAR had said: "I'm sending you 2011, but wait until you see 2012!" -- Yeah, right.

                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                  Kelvin Lamport

                                                  Paul,

                                                   

                                                  While definitely not without faults, the software is nowhere near as bad or buggy as you believe it to be. If it were, no-one would be using it.

                                                   

                                                  Research posts by Mauricio Martinez Saez. Some of his assys make most peoples models look like training exercises.

                                                    • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                      Paul Passarelli

                                                      Hi Kelvin,

                                                       

                                                        I looked and I see that he too likes to use dedign tables.  I have a series of SAE flywheels & housings I designed using design tables.  Perhaps I'll revisit them...

                                                       

                                                        BTW, when I viewed the SW2011 convention, one of the top 10 was to re-examine how equations are caclulated.  I've been on their case since 2005, about a basic flaw in the way they solved equations.  They generate a work-set known as a cross-product.  The symptom is that as the number of equations in a model increases, the time needed to solve them goes up as the square of the number.  The time should increase linearly!

                                                       

                                                        My flywheels are OK, because the number of equations is small, but whan I tried to use parametric design on my engine -- HOLY COW!!!  What I have observed is that the time required now only increases as log2N of the number of equations, but -- that still points to a flaw in the algorithm used to solve equations.  But I can see what my flywheels look like in a Kitchen setting -- fooey!

                                                       

                                                        I read Mauricio's comments and believe that he's identifying the same flaws as I have -- but I MUST say, he's far more humble and a more polite conversationalist than I.     I'm angry and I make no effort to conceal that anger. {sorry}  But I'm emphatic that I the anger is directed towards the SolidWorks development team -- or more precisely the development *MANAGERS* as they're the ones making the driving decisions.

                                                        • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                          Greg Hynd

                                                          Paul? Did you see my question, or are you deliberately avoiding it?

                                                            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                              Paul Passarelli

                                                              Hi Greg,

                                                               

                                                                Sorry, it seemed like a comment, not a question. Just like the profile says, plus the 4GB of Ready Boost cache.  No I'm NOT running the latest driver.  The latest driver BROKE my dual monitor config.  But these problems started *LONG* before I want to dual monitors.  I was using a single Sun 23" at 1600x1200, but that uses a lot of electricity.  I came by an HP x22LED that's almost 2,000 pixels wide (1920x1024) and I added a Dell E196FP at 1280x1024 to make up for the lost 176 pixels in height   I downloaded an nVidia driver which was checked as the latest SolidWorks approved driver at the time, and all was well with the world.

                                                               

                                                                I was using the previous SolidWorks approved driver when I went to the dual setup, and aside fron getting used to the different aspect ration -- there was no change from the old Sun.  That was under SP2.  Then I downloaded SP4, and it decided I needed a new driver.  Suddenly I had a 4 inch dead band on the left side of my display, so i downloaded the *latest* nVidia driver and cured my problem.  While I was working with the VAR, we went through the exercise of re-downloading the last SolidWorks *approved* driver, and the dead band returned -- plus it messed up the Dell a little too.  So for the 3rd time I downloaded an nVidia driver and got my desktop back in shape.

                                                               

                                                                The SolidWorks folks LOVE to seek blame in other locations, RAM, video card, disk, antivirus, backup, ACL, UAC, keyboard, mouse, LAN, ISP, etc, etc.  They try to justify this by explaining that 3D CAD is such a demanding task that there is little or no room of anything less than perfection... My experience says these are copouts.  I regularly run far more demanding tasks and diagnostic tests to verift the integrity of my hardware & OS.

                                                               

                                                                BTW -- I was on the phone with my VAR and we were monitoring GPU utilization as a possible bottleneck... The only time SolidWorks exceeded 4% of the GPU was when I clicked Hide or Show on the entire model!  When I'm editing the GPU is idle.  I wouldn'd be nearly so angry if the peoblems I experience were slow rendering, or even the occasional crash...  But when it goes down is destroys my work -- and that is NOT acceptable.

                                                               

                                                                One last thing... Does everyone realize exactly how much 4GB RAM truly is???  It is a MASSIVE amount of storage!  Now if the s'ware engineers were lazy and squandered the resource, then it is *possible* that it isn't enough... 

                                                               

                                                                I draw your recollection to an old Bugs Bunny cartoon.  The wascally wabbit goes into the forrest and chops down a mighty tree, chucks the tree in a lathe and turns the tree down to a single baseball bat. DEFORRESTATION writ large.  There was also a TV commercial for sausages where the star, Richard Karn ("Al" from "Home Improvement"), was lathe turning individual cocktail toothpicks from 10 lb logs (probably an homage to Bugs Bunny).

                                                               

                                                                What I'm saying is that it's possible to waste RAM (or wood) for all types of things if you act like a resource is infinite -- but that's just lazy programming!

                                                               

                                                                I'd point out that my files are ~14M in total -- much of that is wasted space i.e. the images of the parts which is *generated* not definitive.  Can anyone look at me with a straight face and suggest that the s'ware requires >250X headroom to process the dataset?

                                                               

                                                                I'm sorry that people have been conditioned to believe that bloat is acceptable; it is not.  And since the little SW icon in the Windows taskbar continuously reports green... well, sorry, it's way past time for excuse hunting.

                                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                  Greg Hynd

                                                                  First of all, 4 gig is not enough. I used to have 4 gig too, I upgraded and Ive crashed about 3 times in 6 months. Why not get more and see if it helps? It doesnt actually matter whether you think 4 is enough or not, solidworks (as in the software, not the solidworks staff) says it isnt enough. Get over it. It will help.

                                                                   

                                                                  What processor are you using?

                                                                    • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                      Paul Passarelli

                                                                      When I upgraded from 2G to 4G back in January they *SWORE* it would make a world of difference... NOT!

                                                                       

                                                                      It's a Core 2 Duo 2.something (2.3, 2.4) GHz

                                                                       

                                                                      Again, my complaint isn't about *performance* it's about *RELIABILITY* -- My Workstation is on the HCL -- What good is an HCL is I cannot rely on the s'ware to actually run on *compatible hardware* 

                                                                       

                                                                      If someone at SolidWorks wants put their reputation where their mouth is and send me four 2G sticks of the correct ECC RAM,  I'll take the time to swap them into my 'puter.  And the 1st time SolidWorks crashes I'll pull them out and FedEx them back in a giant red box that says "I TOLD YOU SO!"

                                                                        • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                          Greg Hynd

                                                                          Well they lied. Solidworks reccomend a minimum of 6. I have 16, which I think is pretty standard.

                                                                           

                                                                          Your processor is underpowered too. Upgrade your system and 99.9% of your crashes and reliabilty issues will go away.

                                                                            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                              Paul Passarelli

                                                                              OK, Let's play... How much did that box cost you?

                                                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                  Greg Hynd

                                                                                  £2400 ( i used my old monitors.) Believe me, I couldnt believe the difference when I got it.

                                                                                    • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                      Paul Passarelli

                                                                                      Wow, that's $3760 at today's rate.  Sorry, not gonna happen this month.  In fact, as I see it, it's a poor value decision.  You probably live by beautifully rendered scenes.  I'm designing industrial machines & parts.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      When the s'ware is working properly (which it sometimes does), I have *NO COMPLAINTS* with the performance, or the results.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I hope you can understand that my issue is one of *responsibility*.  Let's say I spent $5,000 on the most incredible 'puter that fits on my desk...  Who will compensate me for a bad decision the next time SolidWorks crashes and drags several hours work into the now gold-plated bit bucket?

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I had this same arguement when I bought GibbsCAM -- I spent $15K on their full package and several more on a top-of-the line HCL workstation back then too.  Guess what???  It failed and crashed all the time too -- bloody MAC s'ware ported to Windows -- it leaked resources like a colander.  And another bunch of arrogant coders who deemed themselves too important to accept input from a "new user" (with only 20 years s'ware experience).

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I'll admit it; I like to use tools that have the maximum *potential* but am frequently disappointed when the product fails to live up to the sales pitch.  As I said earlier, perhaps it's *me* who carries the curse.

                                                                                        • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                          Alin Vargatu

                                                                                          You can buy a good computer for SW for about $1000 nowadays. Something with an i7, 16 GB RAM, Windows 7 Pro x64 and an ATI v4900.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Hmmm... you also mentioned the name... Mac... I hope you are not using one.

                                                                                          • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                            Greg Hynd

                                                                                            you probably live by beautifully rendered scenes. I'm designing industrial machines & parts.

                                                                                            Yeah, I do a lot of rendering, but I do some pretty big assemblies too, see attached.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Who will compensate me for a bad decision the next time SolidWorks crashes and drags several hours work into the now gold-plated bit bucket?


                                                                                            You don't get it. YOU are getting the crashes because your pc is underpowered. And if you are loosing hours of work on crashing you obviously don't save often enough.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Still, this is the last post I will make to this thread, as you strike me that you don't actually want solidworks to work for you, every suggestion someone has made to help you have disregarded and shot down in flames.

                                                                                              • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                                Kelvin Lamport

                                                                                                Because of in-context relationships, one component takes -

                                                                                                2147483648% of the total rebuild time.

                                                                                                I'm sure this will only add fuel to Paul's fire but, wow ... that's a long time.

                                                                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                                  Paul Passarelli

                                                                                                  To All,

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    1st, I apologize for taking a dump on the front step of your clubhouse.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  To Greg,

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    I'm happy for you that you have a very fast & powerful PC; I have what I have.  My "pc" is on the HCL list, and that is supposed to be SolidWorks' guarantee that the platform is sufficient to run *RELIABLY* -- perhaps not with blazing speed or efficiency -- but FREE of DESCRUCTIVE CRASHES -- fail!

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    For the next few items I didn't particularly like your tone -- I'm responding in-kind.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  If you read my posts, you'de have seen that I save early and I save often -- 20+ years of s'ware development & testing taught me that!

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  If you read my posts, you'de have seen that despite frequent "saving" the system *still* dumped my data into the bit-bucket!

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  I bought my license of SolidWorks because I need CAD s'ware -- it's *IMPLICIT* that I want s'ware that works. 

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  You are correct that I have shot down many suggestions. If a suggestion were new, I'd have tried it.  None were original (sorry all). I'm reminded of a tee-shirt: "BEEN THERE, DONE THAT."  I know that the majority of fora are populated by people that should be introduced to another four letter acronym: "RTFM" -- Well, I read the "F" ("F" for "fine" )  manual.  I could spend a month pointing out inconsistencies in the documentation.  Another thing I learned writing s'ware is that documentation is usually the red-headed stepchild; SolidWorks is no exception.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  "Perfect software..." No, not perfect, but significantly better than I paid for!  And for your final dig; my imperfect pc (workstation) has been serving my needs *perfectly* since the day I bought it -- unless I happen to be running SolidWorks.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  And one last comment on your staircase -- 25 unique parts.  I can extract 25 parts from a single sketch, and I frequently have at least that many parts that derive just such a skeleton sketch.  Your staircase is almost nothing but rendering. 

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    To All,

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    I'm certain Greg's staircase was very nice to look at. ( I mean that sincerely, not condescendingly)  But I'm certain he places very different demands on the s'ware than I do.  That's all.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  @Kelvin,

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    That number "-2147483648" is equal to &H7FFFFFFF which is 31 binary "1" and the most significant or "sign" bit = "0"  Believe it or not, I'm hardly troubled by that result.  What it does tell me is that an error occurred somewhere in a calculation, and that the programmers knew that error could happen.  So rather than allow the system to fail or return an essentially random number they chose what is to s'ware people a very obvious value to return.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    What we have is a "commercial release" with a known math error, that is *always* attributable to a bug somewhere deeper in the code. This is what I (and any Q-A team) would classify as a nuisance bug, but nuissance bugs are supposed to be investigated between major releases.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    My question -- which cuts directly to the core of the development philosophy, Why did the team spend developer resources on a silly reporting feature -- and ***allow*** the task to be imperfectly executed?  Yes, I say allow, someone coded an error handler, yet failed to take further action when the error handler was triggered.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    Software development is a trade, like carpentry, plumbing, etc... "Your work is your signature.", and those people are sloppy!

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  To All,

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Anyway it's my thread, so I will continue to monitor what anyone chooses to post, but my patience has now worn out.

                                                                                            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                              Kelvin Lamport

                                                                                              What price do you place on the lost hours of work and the pain & suffering of using such terrible software ... not to mention the lost hair you must have pulled out in your anguish and despair? 

                                                                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                                  Paul Passarelli

                                                                                                  Bingo!

                                                                                                  Kelvin Lamport wrote:

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  What price do you place on the lost hours of work and the pain & suffering of using such terrible software ... not to mention the lost hair you must have pulled out in your anguish and despair? 

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Guys, you don't get it... I'm much much closer to *DUMPING* SolidWorls tha capitulating and buying... what? A commodity desktop to replace my *WORKSTATION*?

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  I can hear it now: "Um, Mr. Passarelli, you really should have a Certified Workstation to run CAD."  This is when I start to lose my cool...  When SolidWorks works it works fine.  I can install it on an *underpowered netbook* and it will perform the basic functions... Whoop-de-do.  What Dassault & SolidWorks cannot beg, borrow, or steal, anymore is ***TRUST***

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  I value my time and work.  I'm ready to switch to BobCAD, TurboCAD, IntelliCAD, or one of the $500 offerings reviewed in last month's Cadalyst magazine.  I could run a linux based offering and at least I'd know I'd be flying without a net.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  I'd switch to SolidEdge in a New York minute, but for one intolerable decision they made. (I do not have the use of my right arm, and the s'ware doesn't properly accommodate the Windows feature of switching the mouse buttons.)  When Edge says it expects a "right_click" it's as if the button police are watching the mouse, not listening to the OS for "standard_inputs" from the pointing device.  A little psycho-motor explanation may help:  When a righty hears "right_click" it means "middle finger" and "left_click" means "index finger".  Windows allows those wet-ware mappings to be switched to the sinister hand and any s'ware should be oblivious to the swap.  SolidEdge decided to poke a hole in that particular Windows API, which a righty will never notice, but, when a lefty tries to play that table the obvious effect is that the s'ware apears to delve into spastic convulsions, and I can say it's not reminiscent of playing nice with the rest of the other applications; I dunno why they did it that way.

                                                                                            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                              Mike Price

                                                                                              4 gig is not enough.  I have never needed anything above 8.  When I was running with 4, I crashed all the time.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I have a suggestion.  If you developed a bug free CAD package that combined the high horsepower computing ability for large patterns like ProE, but had the front end of SW and its surfacing capability, I'd pay over $10K for a standard seat.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I haven't used UG in 15 years and have never used NX, but maybe they already do that.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I don't know of anyone that is completely satisfied with their software.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Josh, my car is garbage too (2000 Ford Explorer with over 230000).  However, it gets me from A to B 99.9 percent of the time and the AC still works.  I'm also not making car payments

                                                                                  • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                    Josh Brady

                                                                                    My car is a piece of crap.  I don't trust it!  It breaks down all the time.  I can't be bothered with things like changing the oil or watching the temperature gauge.  The engine's always revving way high too. I know it's because the engineers who made it didn't anticipate me driving with one foot on the brake pedal at all times.  I design machines for a living!  I know how a machine should work!  If it's not a piece of crap, you won't have to change the oil or watch coolant.  And I've fired people for designing things where you have to push only one pedal at a time.  Quality control is just not there!  Trust me, if I drove your car, it would be acting up within the first few miles.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I don't need training on maintenance or operation of my vehicle either.  If I want to put it in Park when I'm driving down the interstate at 70mph, I should be able to do so!  Lazy or incompetent designers just took shortcuts and concentrated on things like air conditioning and power windows when they should have made my car so I can drive it the way I want.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Now my car is so screwed up I can barely get down to the corner store!  I'm always late wherever I go because of the stupid thing.  I just can't trust it!  Ford, are you listening to me?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Seriously, no tool is perfect. SolidWorks and every other CAD program out there included.  Just banging your head against the wall and stubbornly doing things whatever way you want and expecting your tools to compensate is the definition of insanity.  Learn to use your tools in ways that don't run you into their weaknesses.  If that can't happen with a given tool, find a tool that does work with your workflow.  Just complaining and either discounting or contradicting whatever anyone says won't get you anywhere.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Oh crap, out of troll food.  Time to drive down to the corner store!

                                                                                      • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                        Paul Passarelli

                                                                                        Hi Josh,

                                                                                         

                                                                                          I clicked Like on your post too (I was #4)... but there is a difference. 

                                                                                         

                                                                                        If I were using SolidWorks like a "family car" I could be using Visio -- the only requirement being to draw lines and make them connect.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        But, SolidWorks *ADVERTIZES* itself, not as a family car, but as an Industrail Forklift -- ready for heavy lifting.  I look at the default settings like 500 parts before switching into Large Assembly Mode -- well my model has 222 parts -- therefore I am led to believe that I'm less than 1/2 way up the lifting capacity of the frame.  If they has specified that it was 500 "features" (as opposed to parts) then at least I'd be able to look at it in terms of SOA (Safe Operating Area) -- contrast recommended oil chage intervals of "3 months or 3,000 miles".  I guess I could I call my VAR and ask them where SolidWorks' oil filter is?

                                                                                         

                                                                                        On the issue of training, well, as an employer, I can definitely appreciate that.  I learned to drive back in the 70's and aside from the crush of new traffic, the rules of the road haven't changed all that much.  We still drive on the right sidt of the road (in the USA) but I've driven in St Croix, USVI where the traffic uses the left lane (and left drive US market cars {small shudder} but it works).  Have you ever seen the cockpit of a 787 or a G6  -- its a thing of beauty, but there are still only 4 key instruments, three axes of flight control, plus the throttle that are *NECESSARY* to fly the plane!  I miss my Cessna {sniff}

                                                                                         

                                                                                        You make valid points, and the fact that I've been able to gat *any* work done is directly attributable to the fact that I do try *VERY HARD* to do things the s'ware demands that I do them.  I can say that after 7 1/2 years of owning & using SolidWorks that I'm fairly capable of performing the basic operations with a degree of competence.  What I must add is that after 7 1/2 years I'm *DISGUSTED* with the level of core competency exhibited in the s'ware to correctly interpret *BASIC* functionality with rock-solid reliability!

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Perhaps you recall the early versions of Microsoft Word??  It too was disastrously unstable.  I could open a 50k, document, scroll to the end, add an extra period and simply wait 10-15 minutes for the GP Fault to cause a crash!  Yet many skilled typists actually produced documents and memos, before the "fuse" burned down...  Fortunately by '95 they finally managed to fix the *core* problems. '97 was better and by Office 2000 Word crashes were almost unheard of.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Is SolidWorks more complex than Word? Sure, but it too is composed of core and peripherals.  The difference is that the SolidWorks developers have failed to correct a lot of basic flaws with the suspension, while spending lots of time polishing the chrome. 

                                                                                         

                                                                                        So I'd say that you nailed it!  SolidWorks isn't' reliable enough to go to the grocery store, but it sure looks good in 8x10 glossies!

                                                                          • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                            John Burrill

                                                                            Paul, I had a couple of folder issues that I opened SPR's for-including folder inadvertantly nesting (not supported but it does happen) and file corruption resulting in folders that can't be deleted.

                                                                            -and the other day, my wife made a roasted chicken stuffed with herbs, seasoning and lemon and butter, garlic whipped mashed red potatoes with the skins and pepper gravy on top-which is my favorite. The breast meat was a little overcooked.

                                                                              • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                Paul Passarelli

                                                                                Hi John,

                                                                                 

                                                                                  The chicken dinner sounds delicious, it's hard to cook white meat perfectly...

                                                                                  -- but you forgot to add the "OHH-TEE" in 'yer comment

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                RE: folders.  From the time I started the post thru the schrrn shots I was able to delete & recreate folders, as well as sketches & planes.  I tried various techniques;

                                                                                 

                                                                                multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                reduced multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                even more multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- success

                                                                                move items into folders one at a time -- ok, ok, ok, fail... {user scratches head}

                                                                                 

                                                                                multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                reduced multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                even more multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- success

                                                                                move items into folders one at a time -- ok, ok, ok, fail... {user scratches head}

                                                                                 

                                                                                multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                reduced multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                even more multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                single select, right-click, add to new folder -- success

                                                                                 

                                                                                move items into folders one at a time -- ok, fail... {user scratches head}

                                                                                 

                                                                                multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                reduced multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                even more multi-select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail

                                                                                single select, right-click, add to new folder -- fail...  {user fires off another post to forum}

                                                                                 

                                                                                you get the idea... 

                                                                          • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                            Matt Wallace

                                                                            I just tried this.

                                                                             

                                                                            I get that error if I try to drop the sketch on top of the folder.

                                                                            If I expand the folder, I can place the sketch in the folder.

                                                                             

                                                                            I am going to bravely suggest you are making life much harder for yourself than is necessary.

                                                                            • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                              Alin Vargatu

                                                                              Paul, do you have any fileset that you can share with us where you have problems that are reproducible? An Rx report would be even better.

                                                                               

                                                                              You made me curious, that's all.

                                                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                  Paul Passarelli

                                                                                  Hi Alin,

                                                                                   

                                                                                    Mystery, solved?  No! Not solved, but no longer in the way.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I had to add a screen shot that contrasts the Parents & Children in the sketch that wouldn't move into the folder.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Believe me this is ***FAR*** from solved, and the fact that is is no longer a problem does *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to increase my confidence in SolidWorks!

                                                                                   

                                                                                  2012.08.17 mystery, moot.jpg

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Since I reported the problem, I have gone back through my project and systematically removed every external reference that bypassed a derived sketch or was not a single dependenct reference i.e a plane or axis coincident to its counterpart in the assembly.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Despite all that effort, the problem persisted.  Then I tried a "Pack and Go" and discovered that P&G from the environment is *NOT* equivalent to zipping for transfer.  In fact it was distressing to discover that a pack-n-go set, immediately following a "Save All" does not contain a single *unmodified* file!

                                                                                   

                                                                                  And finally, as I resumed my To Do list and set about adding a mechanical stop, I unsuppresses the visible sketch (not the highlighted one) "T selsyn range $" which contains only construction lines and circles and *surprize*  -- I only suspected something was amiss because it generated a barrage of disk activity and took ~90 seconds to unsuppress the sketch and I was expecting SolidWorks to crash again. 

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Interestingly, not a single file shows a modified timestamp, so I have no idea what it was actually doing.  Furthermore, the Pack and Go operation took less than 10 seconds on my "imperfect workstation", recall that all 100 files and 37MB was modified.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Although I can noy move my sketches to anf from folders, this is FAR from a victory for anyone.  While I have proved my case that SolidWorks is *FULL of BUGS*, no one wins until they decide to fix them.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I guess was can finally put this to bed!

                                                                                • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                  Paul Passarelli

                                                                                  My bad.  The contents of Folder2 were the offending sketches, they still don't move.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Folder1 was "Sump Sketches and that was my shoice of a division point.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  NO JOY!  --  I have combed the project to the best of my ability, now I have to try to finish it.

                                                                                  • Re: BUG: feature tree folder won't take sketch under plane
                                                                                    Mike Lydon

                                                                                    Paul,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I feel your pain. I am currently working on a BOM problem with my VAR and SWX. My VAR has been very supportive, and I THINK they have got SWX's attention. A little background. I work for a welding/fabrication shop. We are having problems with BOMs. One of the VAR techs asked me a question to refresh his memory on my workflow. I use Weldments EXTENSIVELY. Did I mention that I work for a WELDING and FABRICATION shop? Apparently, SWX asked my VAR tech why I wasn't using Assemblies, instead of Weldments. BOMs play nicer with Assemblies than Weldments. Did I mention that I work for a WELDING and FABRICATION shop? Why in the world would I expect Weldments and BOMs to play nice. I don't want to sound like I'm badmouthing SWX, but, really, they need someone who has actually lived in the world of WORK, to oversee the people writing the code. It is clear that the people writing the code do not have a clue how we users actually try to get work done, using the software they have written. My job was actually on the line because of the bad behaviour of BOMs. as I use them. Someone on the development team needs to have their job on the line while trying to use bad code that they have written. Sorry for the rant. I don't want to jeopardize a solution to my problem, but I understand where you are coming from.