13 Replies Latest reply on Feb 27, 2018 3:35 PM by Joe Galliera

    Joule Heating Tutorial

    Reid Sorensen

      Is there any tutorial for setting up a Joule heating simulation or does anybody have any tips?  We have a need to run a study using it but I am not sure what inputs are required to start such a study.  We have Flow and the Electronics Cooling module.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

      -Reid

        • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
          Yash Bhaskar

          Hello Reid,

          It seems you are having the same issue which I am having. The problem is we don't have much information or literature avaliable on Joule Heating in SWX, the only reference we is the the following video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_z0g1EwSsg. I followed the video and tried replecating the same in my problem but unfortunately not is happening for me.

          Lets hope we can get something on the forum so that we can proceed with our respective problems.

           

          Regards,

          Yash

            • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
              Reid Sorensen

              Hello Yash,

              You are correct, I haven't been able to dig up anything on Joule Heating in SolidWorks.  I have messed around with the settings and this is what I have found so far:

              • The material you choose to use in the study needs to be a Conductor not a Dielectric.  It has to have a Resistivity specified in the engineering database (change Dielectric to Conductor to activiate Resistivity).  You can find a lot of information on material resistivities with an online search. 
              • If you leave the material as a Dielectric and run the study, the solver will run and complete normally but nothing will change from the set initial conditions.  However, you will get a strange looking solver temp plot where everything is at a steady state temp but temperature gradients are shown. You can see this in the image I've posted below.

              Strange Solver Temp Plot.bmp

              • I've also made use of the Joule Heat Global Goal which monitors the maximum heat dissipation in Watts generated by Joule heating. 

               

              This might not be much help but it is what I have found so far on my own.  I'm waiting for my VAR to get back to me to discuss Joule Heating further.  Hope you're having better luck than I!

              -Reid

                • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                  Yash Bhaskar

                  Hi Reid,

                   

                  But still you have done a great observation and its pretty useful also.

                  I am still working on my model, it seems something is wrong with my mesh or boundry conditions but I am unable to figure it out.

                   

                  -Yash

                  • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                    Reid Sorensen

                    UPDATE:

                    My VAR got back to me concerning my questions.  This is what he said, "I am meeting with the SolidWorks Simulation Territory Manager this week Friday.  He was formerly one of the guys who wrote the Simulation manuals.  I will check with him and see if there is anything out there in the form of a tutorial."

                    After their meeting this is what he said, "Unfortunately the SolidWorks guy told me that there isn't much out there on using the joule heating condition.  I think because it is a very small part of the software. Honestly, it looks like how you are using joule heating is the proper way to use it. However, you just need to keep in mind that 2 currents isn't always going to solve properly because it can cause instabilities in the solver.  They recommend to use 2 voltages (with some voltage drop) or a voltage and a current when using joule heating."

                    So, for those of us looking for answers on how to properly setup a simulation using Joule Heating, it looks like SW has left us to fend for ourselves.  Honestly, I’m pretty surprised at this.  Joule heating was a big reason behind why we bought the $4,000 Electronics Cooling add-in and SolidWorks doesn’t provide documentation on how to properly use it!

                     

                    -Reid

                      • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                        David Maxham

                        Reid, Yash,

                         

                        Sounds like some interesting work.  I took a look to see what I could find on Joule heating and came up with nothing, which is sad.  I also checked at the Mentor Graphic's website, since they are the ones who actually develop the software, also known as Flo/EFD.  The problem with the lack of support on such issues like this one is that Solidworks is a reseller of the Flo/EFD software, which they rename Solidworks Flow Simulation, and so end users like us never get to talk with the folks at Mentor.  On the other hand if the customer uses Pro/E or Catia and they want to purchase this CFD software which we know as Flow Simulation they go directly to Mentor who sells it as Flo/EFD, which means they get to talk directly with the CFD folks at Mentor. And what a great group of people at Mentor - I've worked with them for 10 plus years with another CFD software package known as Flotherm, and you would never get the answer like you got above.   It's too bad we can't get access to the Mentor CFD folks who support their direct customers with Flo/EFD (aka Solidworks Flow Simulation).

                         

                        I'm sure an answer is out there, it's just a matter of struggling to find it. Maybe you could post your progress and those of us interested here could take a look and maybe we could solve it together?

                         

                        Dave

                        • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                          Yash Bhaskar

                          Hi Reid,

                           

                          Its really very disappointing to hear this from SolidWorks side.

                          I tried checking the SWX Knowledge Base regarding Joule Heating & I also got the similar answer there,

                           

                          SR.jpg

                           

                          I tried the above combinations and I got some results at the part level but unfortunately the results were not very encouraging at the assembly level.

                          I believe the Joule heating capability of SolidWorks can be of great use, but the lack of proper literature related to this topic is restricting us from getting benefited by the capabilities of the tool.

                          Without the knowledge of proper study setup we can do much.

                           

                          -Yash

                    • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                      Victoriano R. III Alvarez

                      Hi to all of you,

                       

                      You have any result with this Joile heating, I have same situation.

                      Is this been resolve.

                      Thanks

                      Vic

                        • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                          Joe Galliera

                          Vic, what do you need to know? I can help you out with your Joule Heating problem.

                           

                          It's pretty straightforward actually, but there are a couple things to note about Joule (or Ohmic) heating:

                          1) need to define material with electrical resistivity properties, and it is best if you have temperature dependent properties as it will change the results

                          2) the cross sectional area needs to defined well enough by the mesh so that the resistance is correct. The latest Flow mesher does a good job with capturing the geometry, but I would still recommend having a local mesh control defined for the resistor volume.

                          3) define either a voltage potential or a current in and zero voltage out; this is akin to defining a pressure drop or flow rate and pressure outlet, respectively

                          4) there needs to be a mechanism to remove the heat, such as an external flow natural convection, radiation cooling or conduction to a cooler temperature, so that the solution can reach an equilibrium

                        • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                          Victoriano R. III Alvarez

                          Thanks Joe to open the issue. Im using Flow simulation but I think this module is not enough.

                           

                          1) need to define material with electrical resistivity properties, and it is best if you have temperature dependent properties as it will change the results

                               Answer : actually I,m working already for a Proto type and with regard to material is already selected. The ambient temperature input 50°C on standard atmospheric pressure. The material is copper connected to aluminum.

                          2) the cross sectional area needs to defined well enough by the mesh so that the resistance is correct. The latest Flow mesher does a good job with capturing the geometry, but I would still recommend having a local mesh control defined for the resistor volume.

                               Answer : The cross sectional area already define the copper is 12.5 x 63 (mm) for approximate 800 Amps this for 500kva 13.8 kv 400v.  I have already result with cut plot I will sow you later.

                          3) define either a voltage potential or a current in and zero voltage out; this is akin to defining a pressure drop or flow rate and pressure outlet, respectively

                               Ask : what module your using, because on my module I cannot find this. Maybe your using electronic module

                          4) there needs to be a mechanism to remove the heat, such as an external flow natural convection, radiation cooling or conduction to a cooler temperature, so that the solution can reach an equilibrium

                               Answer : The cooling issue on my design this will be by ventilation only  no fan involve.

                           

                          Ask : is their's a way I can  input on Flow simulation the current and voltage so we can simulate the heat generated on the copper.

                          Please find the screen shot;

                            • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                              Joe Galliera

                              You will need the Electronics module to be able to do Joule heating, otherwise you will not have the option for this.  If you do have the module, the Electrical Conditions feature may be hidden from your tree.  You can customize the tree by right-mouse click the project name, and choose Customize Tree... from the list you may see the Electrical Conditions item. This way the feature will always be in the tree.

                              If you want to add the feature to this project only, then go to the menu: Tools > Flow Simulation > Insert > Electrical Condition.

                                • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                                  Victoriano R. III Alvarez

                                  Yes your correct Sir, It's impossible to  correlate to electrical issue if the module of Electronics not included.  That's why I'm only get the data from previous  actual test and implement it to simulation. That the only I can use. But if you have any Idea even I don't have. Maybe you any way or idea to resolve this issue.

                                   

                                  To make it short if we are dealing on electrical issue we must get this 2 module Flow simulation and the Electronic Module.

                                  But because we are not electronic manufacturing,little part of the module I can use not all but need to pay for all. If there a way that joule heating module only to be included.

                                   

                                  Thanks

                                   

                                  Joe

                                    • Re: Joule Heating Tutorial
                                      Dave Brown

                                      If you don't have access to the Electronics Module, you can manually calculate the resistances and watts at various locations on your conductor and then apply them as surface heat sources. If the conductor geometry isn't too crazy this can give a respectable approximation. You're looking at conductor cross section, conductor length, and material resistivity. Break it into subsections as necessary. Then I^2*R to get watts for each sub section. If there's a lot of branching of your conductors then proceed with caution.