37 Replies Latest reply on Aug 22, 2012 2:57 PM by Ryan McVay

    SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6

        • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
          Scott McFadden

          Jon,

          I know this has been talked about for a couple of years now.  We will all have to see how this

          plays out, but Desault systems may be slitting their own throat.  What I mean by that is with the

          talk of the kernal changin I know in my own circles the talk has been to either stay on the version

          they are on or change softwares.  Because that journey is cheaper then purchasing all new PC's.

            • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6

              Scott,

               

              It would be fair to say I'm totaly disgusted with the entire situation... from how SolidWorks has handled V6 to how competitors are now taking advantage of SolidWorks lousy communication.

               

              I find it humourous that some people seem to think that Siemens Solid Edge ST US managament are SolidWorks users saviors in light of how Solid Edge ST still doesn't have a single CAM system that runs inside it after all these years. Siemens won't even make their own technology (NX CAM) run natively inside Solid Edge ST.

               

              This entire situation is just pathetic and an example of how poorly CADCAM companies communicate with users.

               

              Jon Banquer

              San Diego, CA

              http://cadcamtechnologyleaders.blogspot.com/

                • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                  Scott McFadden

                  Jon,

                  I totally agree with you.  This might be a turning point in the history of SW.  And it may not be a good one.

                  There are a lot of softwares that are in the background licking their chops.  I know Autodesk Inventor is one

                  of them.  I can see them taking a lead in this race.  Pro-E is another one.

                    • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6

                      Scott,

                       

                      It doesn't matter how good Autodesk Inventor is or becomes. No machine shop that I know of will ever go for this:

                       

                      http://www.3dcadtips.com/will-autodesk-products-all-be-used-online/

                       

                       

                      Jon Banquer

                      San Diego, CA

                        • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                          Scott McFadden

                          Jon,

                          That is a very interesting article.  Why would these softwares be used online?

                          This to me seems dangerous.  I hope Solidworks does not go in this direction.

                          I just hate the direction that softwares are taking.  The whole cloud/internet to me is just

                          another back door approach that allows big brother to watch us.

                          In my humble opinion!!!

                            • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6

                              Scott,

                               

                              The reason that CADCAM companies want to force users to the cloud is that it locks in a constant income stream for them. The option to pay maintenance or to skip a release no longer exists because maintenance is mandatory or you can't use the program at all.

                               

                              SolidWorks is giving users a choice... at least to start with. SolidWorks says that a SolidWorks V6 user can host their own private cloud. This isn't an option with Autodesk products according to Autodesk's CEO.

                               

                              "I just hate the direction that softwares are taking."

                               

                              So do I and what's worse is how few CADCAM users are willing to speak up about it. Note that there are only 4 responses to what I linked to. Pretty depressing how almost all CADCAM users are content to let CADCAM companies do whatever they want.

                               

                              "The whole cloud/internet to me is just another back door approach that allows big brother to watch us."

                               

                              While pretending it's a huge technology breakthough. It's all about gaining more control over users.

                               

                              Jon Banquer

                              San Diego, CA

                                • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                  Scott McFadden

                                  Jon,

                                  I am so on the same page as you!!! 

                                  It is all about control.  Like most companies whether it is the phone company or Wal-mart, you are

                                  always at their mercy if you want what they are offering.

                                   

                                  If you don't mind I have a membership on the Autodesk forum and I would love some feedback on that link you posted.

                                  Jon, thanks for posting this thread.  This is a real eye opener.

                                  • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                    Rich Turner

                                    using cloud based software is also a big responce to priracy if solidworks has 1.7m users i wouldnt be surprised if there are 500k if not more illegal users... but surely cloud based MCAD is a long way off anyway

                                    • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                      Scott McFadden

                                      I posted this link on the autodesk forum and the response was from the Autodesk reseller rep was there were more pros then cons.

                                      One point they did bring up was that with the software on line would mean that updates would happen automatically.

                                      Wondering if crashes would happen less.

                                      But another point is that certain companies would be handcuffed if they still have dial up.  Plus with certain bandwidths this could pose an issue as well.

                                      Still don't like the control and what I have stated in my previous posting still rings true in my mind.

                                        • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6

                                          "I posted this link on the autodesk forum and the response was from the Autodesk reseller rep was there were more pros then cons."

                                           

                                          The Autodesk reseller rep is correct. There are far more pros than cons... for Autodesk.

                                           

                                           

                                          What about those who have to be concerned with complying with ITAR regulations like I do?

                                           

                                           

                                          BAE Systems just backed out of using Micrsoft office in the cloud as data could not be reliably secured.

                                           

                                           

                                          http://www.itproportal.com/2011/12/08/bae-systems-abandons-microsoft-cloud-plans-citing-patriot-act/

                                           

                                           

                                          "A number of high profile outages that users have suffered recently demonstrated just how little control you actually have. When it all goes horribly wrong, you just sit there and hope it is going to get better," Newhouse said."

                                           

                                           

                                          Jon Banquer

                                          San Diego, CA

                                        • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                          Roy Potter

                                          I'm self employed and the idea of cloud based CAD is not one that I like. The internet is not as stable as I'd like or even always available.

                                          What makes the idea of working across the internet quicker than working across the internal company servers? Or am I missing the actual point of cloud based systems?

                                          Where ever I go people complain the servers are slow so how can the cloud be quicker?

                                           

                                          who's calling the shots? how do we go about making sure that we can work locally and not cloud based? It does not seem no matter what the user actually wants once the software developers have made up their minds.

                                           

                                          Has a poll been taken about a cloud based system?

                                           

                                          What are other users looking at in replacement of SW?

                                           

                                          Are we all getting worked up over nothing due to the lack of information?

                                            • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                              Alin Vargatu

                                              Roy, SolidWorks - the way you know it - will not go away anytime soon. As far as I know, the V6 platform will be used for a new and different product, not a replacement of the current one.

                                               

                                              SolidWorks promised more information this winter during the SolidWorks World, so we just need a tiny bit of patience until will learn more about this product.

                                                • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                  Andy Sanders

                                                  This means software development will be split into 2.  Or worse, V6 will eat up 90% of the development resources, while good ole regular (non cloud) SW will get MAYBE 10%.  I can't see them hiring a team of engineers just to do it.

                                                   

                                                  Of course, this is all speculation.

                                                    • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                      Kelvin Lamport

                                                      Andy Sanders wrote:

                                                       

                                                      I can't see them hiring a team of engineers just to do it.

                                                      So who do you think is doing it now. Both SW13 & V6 are under development, and from some reviews SW13 is a pretty good release.

                                                       

                                                      SW is a cash cow for Dassault, and they won't slaughter that income before it is replaced.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Chris Challinor wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Cloud is good for one thing only, to make money

                                                      I'm not a believer in the cloud, and my company almost certainly will not be migrating to it. However, it could also be a money saver;

                                                      Companies may not have to upgrade computers so often ... but many will certainly have to upgrade their internet service.

                                                      SW will be accessible from anywhere (with internet access) on much simpler computers ... providing the graphics card is suitable, I imagine.

                                                      All subscribers to the cloud will be working on the same version and there will be no more need to update SPs or uninstall & reinstall between versions.

                                                       

                                                      I envisage bigger downsides than upsides though.

                                                  • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                    Chad Schmidt

                                                    The desktop PC is dead.  Tablets will soon takeover and this is why I think a cloud type implementation is unavoidable.  This is pure speculation on my part though.

                                                    • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                      Kenneth Barrentine

                                                      Keep this in mind, I might be totally off base here.

                                                      Working off internal servers is not the same as Cloud.

                                                       

                                                      Internal Server only serves the files. The application (SolidWorks) runs local on your hardware.

                                                      With a Cloud, it runs the application and you see results thru the browser.

                                                       

                                                      Cloud computing is well suited for database applications (Oracle, SAP, etc...)

                                                      In this scenario a single server can host many users.

                                                       

                                                      But a parametric CAD application is a different beast entirely.

                                                      In this scenario a single server can possibly only host 1 user.

                                                      i.e. a massive server farm will be required to pull this off.

                                                       

                                                      Perhaps the Cloud is a conspiracy between hardware and software companies.

                                                      Server farms require constant attention, backups, upgrades, etc ...

                                                      Yeah that's a pretty wild speculation. lol

                                                        • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                          Chris Challinor

                                                          Cloud is good for one thing only, to make money....................when all your files are "on the cloud" you are at the mercy of the company who owns the cloud software.

                                                           

                                                          good way to keep people paying money so they wont lose the files..................

                                                           

                                                          Force me to use "the cloud", well I will just have to go find other software to do my work that dose not require me to be at your mercy

                                                            • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                              Alin Vargatu

                                                              Chris Challinor wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Force me to use "the cloud", well I will just have to go find other software to do my work that dose not require me to be at your mercy

                                                               

                                                              I wouldn't be too worried about "being forced" to use the cloud.

                                                              • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                                Kenneth Barrentine

                                                                I see no value in storing "files" in the cloud. Why would i want to store my files on a Cloud? What's the point. I can see the difference in what Apple offers for it's devices. But the logic is different. The Apple Cloud is a convenience feature.

                                                                 

                                                                The real value in a Cloud is for applications. It's about computing not storage.

                                                                 

                                                                The logic behind this is simple.

                                                                I got my first introduction to the cloud 2 years ago when we were searching for an ERP system. ERP is not cheap or for the faint of heart. It's an investment for both short & long term benefits. However, for companies on smaller budgets ERP can be out reach. In comes the Cloud.

                                                                 

                                                                With Cloud computing a small company can now afford to get an ERP system.

                                                                Purchasing and maintaining hardware is done by the ERP vendor.

                                                                Software patches and upgrades are done by the ERP vendor.

                                                                Backup and guaranteed up time provided by the ERP vendor.

                                                                Couple this with the software being a lot cheaper than the traditional client/server version and now the little company can afford sophisticated planing capabilities.

                                                                 

                                                                I'm guessing if SolidWorks offers a Cloud product in will be aimed at companies/individuals who would otherwise not be able to afford the software. And just like the ERP vendors still offer the traditional client/server version of their software, SolidWorks will most likely continue to provide it's traditional version of SolidWorks.

                                                                 

                                                                Maybe we're talking about 2 different clouds.

                                                                  • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                                    Chris Challinor

                                                                    whether it be your data files or software files, files on the cloud can be given, or taken away, by the company that owns the software using the cloud...............don't pay......no play.

                                                                      • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                                        Joe Kuzich

                                                                        From what I understand then is that "cloud" based software is going to be an Internet based network that contains the bulk of the software and output files created by that software.  Is that correct?  If it is I wonder what the legal rights are to those files.  Thinking worst case.  I would think that anything not yet trade marked or patented could easily be "borrowed".  Is possession still 9/10th's?  The company holding the cloud could raise their cost to what ever they wanted at any time and you're at their whim just as we are gasoline hikes and the such.  If its Internet based then any problem with a communication route could kill the entire companies ability to be productive.  Oh there's a storm 75 mile from here but the cable/fiber optic etc is down so everyone go home, good thing deadlines aren't too tight from unrealistic promises in sales.

                                                                         

                                                                        If I understand it right, I can see a lot of great advantages but some serious disadvantages too.

                                                                • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6

                                                                  "who's calling the shots?"

                                                                   

                                                                  Dassault, who doesn't want to say anything until next year and who feels this is an acceptable approach.

                                                                   

                                                                  "What are other users looking at in replacement of SW?"

                                                                   

                                                                  Only company I'm aware of that is doing direct marketing against SolidWorks is Siemens Solid Edge. Their US manglement is trying to use kernel FUD as well as paying one of the last SolidWorks bloggers still active to try and convince SolidWorks users to change. Siemens Solid Edge US manglement would rather use this approach instead of doing the difficult work of actually proving why direct modeling is better than history based modeling with comprehensive video comparisons of the radically different approaches to solid modeling. I don't believe their kernel FUD approach will work or have much of an effect on converting SolidWorks users to Solid Edge.

                                                                   

                                                                  Jon Banquer

                                                                  San Diego, CA

                                                                  CADCAM Technology Leaders group on LinkedIn

                                                            • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                              Chad Schmidt

                                                              Now that Inventor and Autocad are cloud based all my problems have magically been solved!  So now you can take a crappy product put it online and all of sudden it's a great product?  Why don't they focus on a replacement for Autocad and Inventor instead.

                                                      • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                        Valentin Leung

                                                        Thanks for sharing that article.

                                                         

                                                        It's true that SW communication has been VERY poor about that subject and it made users think about alternatives. Also, alternatives are building their communication on SW weaknesses.

                                                         

                                                        I am seriously considering SE right now.

                                                        I mainly do Product Design and we have Mastercam for the CAM part. We have a molding department using SW. I just purchased modo to seriously try it out and see Modo -> CAD transfer.

                                                        Basically, I want to break free from the parametric model. I lose a lot of time into rebuilding endless list of features. In my many years of experience with SW, I manage to set myself some rules so that I design cleanly but kids from the schools are not taught that. So I end up with some huge files, huge rebuilt time and it's a huge lost of productivity for me. It actually bugs me more than the kernel change. I saw that 2012 has a freeze feature, that might be nice, but still... it's a bandage...  Will V6 give me a solution to that? I don't know. But from what I saw from SE, it seems to give me a good alternative. I still need to try it out though.

                                                         

                                                        Piracy is a serious problem. I think they should just face it, in the software industry there is no easy solution, there will always be a way to go around a protection. On the genuine user side, they need to pay attention that it protection measures don't affect them too much. A bit like all the anti piracy message you have when you load a blu-ray at home.

                                                        But cloud is not a solution, it's an alternative with big CONS.

                                                        • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6
                                                          Jeff Holliday

                                                          I understand the concerns and I do not doubt that the communications has been handled poorly.

                                                           

                                                          Could someone make some suggestions for future use?

                                                           

                                                          If the cloud had not been mentioned a few years ago in relation to SW, I am sure someone would have raised a point about SW being left behind by other softwares. They mentioned it and got hit by it.

                                                           

                                                          There are certain abilities offered by different geometric kernels. SW could stay on the current kernel and I'm positive someone would point out that another kernel allows a given function that cannot be achieved with the current.

                                                           

                                                          SW has stated that 2 versions will be offered for the foreseeable future. Do we all believe that - maybe not. Do we know the future - definitely not!

                                                           

                                                          I don't like uncertainty any more than most others. I do know that SW works well for our company. We all have a choice to stay with it or change. I would very much like to see SW continue to grow, prosper, address current needs and lead the way in the future. If our voices are able to help with that, let's do it constructively.

                                                          • Re: SolidWorks / SolidWorks V6

                                                            The real problem seems to be the contraint solvers used in or with old geometry modeling engines (kernels) like Parasolid, Granite One (PTC) and Autodesk Shape Manager (code purchased from Spatial (ACIS)).

                                                             

                                                            http://cadcamtechnologyleaders.blogspot.com/

                                                             

                                                            I think SolidWorks V6 is an attempt to solve this problem. Too bad SolidWorks Corp. doesn't want to come right out and say what the real problem is.

                                                             

                                                            Jon Banquer

                                                            San Diego, CA