I've selected both the datum and the GD&T callout, but the "group" button remaines greyed out. Is there a way to group these two?
I would attach the control frame to the .435 dimension. Attaching it to the datum
is not a normal ASME standard way of doing it.
On a side note, I was trying to work on your other issue of the weekend
getting working assenmbly to post for you. I just didn't have time to finish
it. Just didn't want you to think that I forgot about you.
Can you show a screen shot of what you are trying to group?
My first thought is why you are not attaching the datum to the feature control frame. But I may not be understanding your issue. A picture will help.
Here you go, Anna. The FCT only references the datum, not the dimension.
I think the best you will be able to do in tghis situation would be to group the FCT with the .435 dim.
also, are you sure you want the diameter symbol in the FTC? seems out of place to me...
The diameter symbol is fine as long as it is referencing a cylindrical feature.
true, but none of the dims in the screenshot show a diameter symbol - especially the .435 dim...
I agree with you on that point. But not being able to see geometry and knowing that
dimensions can be added w/o "Ø" symbols it is hard to speak to.
But I get your point!!!
Jeremy Feist wrote: true, but none of the dims in the screenshot show a diameter symbol - especially the .435 dim...
Jeremy Feist wrote:
Let me add to Scott's reply.
If you intend to tolerance the .435 feature with that perpendicular control frame, then you should remove the diameter symbol from the control frame. It is not appropriate because the center plane of the .435 feature cannot fit in a theoretical cylindar. I believe what you want to say with the control frame is that the center plane of the .435 feature must lie entirely in a .005" thick theoretical slab that is perfectly perpendicular to datum A.
I know this doesn't answer your question for the grouping but I think I'll have to disagree with you that the Perpendicular callout references only the Datum B, not the .435... the .435 is what makes the Datum B. Based on the image you gave what you are pointing to for Datum B is the Centerline Plane of the .435 dimension. (if you can see ASME Y14.5M-1994 4.5.3 on page 63) Now when you add the GD&T to the Datum B you should do it as shown in this image:
Paul's response is where I was headed.
If your feature of size meets its size requirement and meets the perpendicluarity requirement then it becomes Datum B.
Attach the datum symbol to the FCF like Paul shows.
Will reserve comment on the other issue with the GDT and the diameter symbol.
Oh what the heck, I'll throw in my two cents to muddy the waters (I love mixed metaphors!). If the function of the part really needs a center line plane defined and it needs to be perpendicular to within .005 then OK, but if I were in your QC or purchasing group I would be displeased.
I assumed the need was to define surface B which should be free to float without the CF:
Attach the CF to the feature of interest and drag it inline with the Datum and dim.
We are designers and analyze everything, don't we?
Datum B is only to the face at which I have the datum, not the width (.435) of the feature. It is a cylindrical part. However, the Ø should not be there. Nice catch, all!
By the way, these are the customers' dimensional requirements, not mine. No matter what I may think, it does not matter!
if B is that face, and not the center of the .435, it needs to be moved out of line from the dim - like this:
Being a Cylinder, shouldn't the dim have the diameter symbol? Another option: Attached a note "B" with a Box (two charaters) to the feature of interest, removed the leader, position the note with the CF and then RMB and group.
That's a good workaround too, Harold. Thanks!
The .435 is the width of that feature, you are looking at a section detail thru the length of the part.
Well, I'll now put my unsollicited opinion in there. If a customer is specifying their requirements in gibberish, it's worth the time to raise the issue with them. If their meaning isn't clear, it's just going to produce problems with manufacturing and inspection. What would you do if a customer specified a dimension like this: RØ.500-you can't really proceed until you've worked that out.
I once had to convert an AutoCAD drawing to Solidworks and no-kidding, a mounting hole referenced itself in its feature control frame. Seriously, you can't let the customer slide on GD&T otherwise, they'll come back with this kind of crud:
Now that's just sloppy! Everybody knows you need to have a diameter symbol before the CF dim in a..., Oh wait. Ewww.
Yeah, I think that ASME leaves concentricity in the standard so that you can comit an attrocity every now-and-then.
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