34 Replies Latest reply on Mar 18, 2012 9:24 PM by Neville Williams

    Drawings are slower in 2012?

    Andy Ahn

      Hi,

       

      I'm not sure if this is discussed previously but I was wondering if this is happening only to us or if anybody else feels the same way.

      Basically overall speed on drawing have slowed down in 2012. Not just me but all of the design staions in our company.

      For example when you hide or unhide a part in drawing views, we can really feel it.

       

      Could you share your thoughts on this?

       

      Thank you.

        • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
          Randy Neumann

          They improved the graphics in drawing mode in 2012, sharper lines, etc. I suppose this has taxed the system a bit more.

          • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
            Unspecified Unspecified

            I have done a drawing performance test for a

            300  parts section drawing.

             

            Solidworks 2005 16 sec

            Solidworks 2012 26 sec

             

            It is really dissappointing.

             

             

            I thought Solidworks 2011 wasn't this bad but I only checked 2005

            and 2012.  In 6 years rebuild time has gone up more than 60%.

            That's about 10% every year. I don't believe any of these promises

            about performance anymore.

             

            This was a test under XP.

            Can anyone confirm these numbers on W7?

            I never heard that XP was slower with rebuilding than W7.

            This slow 2012 test is not because of memory shortage, it is

            just a small assembly.

              • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                David Paulson

                This was a test under XP.

                XP is two generations older than the current iteration of SolidWorks.  You certainly don't think that SW 2012 should be designed to optimize performance on XP???  While I understand all of the user frustations surrounding Vista, there is really no excuse for comparing SW2012 running on XP as a basis for your argument.  XP is "then" and SW2012 is "now".    Perhaps you might base your benchmark on XP and SW2004 vs. W7 and SW2012.....................

                 

                But you do have a point.  Operating systems incorporate more and more User Interface conveniences which slow the whole process down.  If SW ported SW2012 to DOS or UNIX it would be a ripper.  But not for the vast majority of users whose productivity is enhances by the UI. 

                 

                Maybe that is why most cars now have automatic transmissions..............

                  • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                    Neville Williams

                    I refer you to Waynes further test on and post earlier in this thread, on 31-Oct-2011 12:28.

                    New Lenovo W520, Win 7,64Bit, Quadro Graphics.

                    That seems a fair simple test.

                    I wonder if we will ever see this question ticked off as answered - not :-(

                    • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                      Kelvin Lamport

                      While I have to agree with you in general regarding new SW versions on "old" OS, my current setups (both XP) fly in the face of the apparent trend being reported by previous posters.

                       

                      My works machine has a 3.2GHz CPU (admittedly a P4) running SW11, and my home machine has a 3GHz C2D running SW12, but their performance prior to SW12 has been pretty much the same.

                      To open a multi-sheet (52) drawing at work = 45secs. (SW11)

                      The same drawing at home = 20secs. (SW12)

                       

                      However, the first time I opened the drawing at home it took forever, so I did a Save All, closed SW, rebooted and tried again.

                      So even though I had updated all files to SW12 previously with Task Scheduler, it still needed a full Save within SW to do the trick.

                       

                       

                      EDIT: Just opened the drawing at work again and the time was 21secs (SW11). Some other process must have been running before. So for me, the end result is basically the same for SW11 & 12.

                      • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                        Peter De Vlieger

                        "Maybe that is why most cars now have automatic transmissions.............."

                         

                        True only in the US.

                    • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                      Wayne Matus

                      If you look at the benchmark test scores for compairable computers, 2012 is about 30% slower than 2011 Sp4.

                      Performance.png

                        • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                          Unspecified Unspecified

                          Which test is this?

                           

                          If this is a good test then why doesn't Solidworks do these tests

                          before promising us  performance improvements.

                           

                          I really hope these performance regressions in Solidworks 2012

                          are bugs that are fixed very soon.

                          • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                            Anna Wood

                            One thing we can't see in those two sets of results is if both computers power settings are set to high performance under the Windows Power Settings in the Control Panel.

                             

                            That can make a very big difference in performance of a PC with the same hardware.

                             

                            Cheers,

                             

                            Anna

                              • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                Unspecified Unspecified

                                I understand this concern but why would anyone with a little bit knowledge about

                                computer performance change setting in control panel between 2 tests?

                                 

                                Anyway in my test nothing has been changed on settings, tests were

                                directly after each other.

                                 

                                There should be no intention to make things worse than they are, just the truth.

                                 

                                I hope more users can post their results.

                                  • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                    Anna Wood

                                    You are assuming the Lenovo laptops are the same individual.  They are likely not since the SolidWorks benchmark only shows your latest submission to the benchmark.

                                     

                                    I am not trying to defend anyone.  Just stating that we do not know if the results Wayne showed are a true apples to apples comparison.

                                     

                                    With that said I would expect that your results are showing a true slow down as you have tested on identical equipment with the same settings on the hardware side and in SolidWorks.

                                     

                                    Interesting results, by the way.

                                     

                                    Cheers,

                                     

                                    Anna

                                      • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                        Unspecified Unspecified

                                        Oke now I see what you mean, the computers of Wayne are indeed different.

                                         

                                        The slower SW2012 test has also less memory.

                                         

                                        It would be interesting if Wayne could post the results on the same computer.

                                          • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                            Wayne Matus

                                            These are not my computers, Just ones I found from the results posted by other uses. I know the model numbers are different and one has 8GB of ram while the other has 16GB. They both have the same processor and video card. These are the reasons I said the computers were comparable. I do not know what other junk is installed on them. I would doubt that having 16GB of ram vs. 8 would effect the results that much. If it takes 16GB ram to effectibvly run the benchmark, then we are all using the wrong software.

                                             

                                            It does ask enough questions so that I want to do some testing for myself. I will post results after I do.

                                            • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                              Wayne Matus

                                              OK, I have tests on a new Lenovo W520 and 2012 Sp0 is slower than 2011 Sp4.

                                               

                                              GraphicsProcessorI/OOverall
                                              2011 Sp436118.566.3220.8
                                              2012 Sp072.5132.485.3290.2

                                               

                                              2012 performance.PNG

                                              2011 performance.PNG

                                                • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                  Neville Williams

                                                  I find this sort of progression from one years release to the next highly disturbing.

                                                   

                                                  What is going on with this program?

                                                   

                                                  This is like buying next years model of car, for more dollars and having the thing do zero to 60 in less time, use more fuel and have a higher maintenance (ie more service packs to fix it)

                                                   

                                                  It's been said before by others and myself,

                                                  THE EFFORT SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON MAKING THE PROGRAM PERFORM FASTER AND WITH MORE STABILITY - NOT ADDING FLUFF AND BELLS AND WHISTLES

                                                    • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                      Unspecified Unspecified

                                                      It's about time that performance results are

                                                      publiced in "What's new"  instead of all these great

                                                      performance promises.

                                                       

                                                      When working on big projects waiting time is the biggest

                                                      factor even on the fastest overclocked computers.

                                                       

                                                      I wonder if the coming change to the Catia kernel is

                                                      already underway and if this would slow down.

                                                       

                                                      From Solidworks 2011 to 2012 there is  a performance degrease of -31%

                                                      This is something that I have never seen before.

                                                      It always has been about 10-15% slower but this ridiculous.

                                                      Useless to say that there is no reason to upgrade.

                                                        • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                          Neville Williams

                                                          To my mind this absolutely zero reason to upgrade and I would wonder why anyone would !!!

                                                          At present I am wondering what my subscription is buying.

                                                            • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                              Alan Woolston

                                                              Exactly.

                                                               

                                                              Especially when every year new and exciting bugs are introduced, few if any of the previous major bugs are fixed and the behavior of menus, toolbars, etc. are changed just subtbly enough to drive you mad.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Soildworks, fix the crap that has been a problem for years and stop adding useless bling.

                                                               

                                                              And as I have said before;

                                                               

                                                              If I have my settings saved to a file, when I install a new version and reload my settings, Solidworks should have 'EXACTLY' the options I had turned on, not all of the latest, completley useless to my task, new fearures turned on.

                                                               

                                                              How hard is this for Solidworks to understand?

                                                                • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                  John Sanchez

                                                                  You know you could always switch to inventor...

                                                                    • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                      Denny Metcalf

                                                                      I switched, lol.

                                                                       

                                                                      Loving the performance of my GeForce GTX 580 over my Quadro FX 4800 which was immensely more expensive.

                                                                       

                                                                      Also, you don't have to have an active subscription with Autodesk to still get your service packs and hot fixes, unlike my SolidWorks 2011 which is stuck on SP4.0.

                                                                       

                                                                      Really it all depends on what type of models you need to make and what your process is. I switched knowing full well that SolidWorks is the superior product in terms of capability, but I don't do any complex surfacing, etc. It's just so much faster to create drawings in Inventor, I never did understand why making drawings in SolidWorks continues to be so time consuming (relative to comparable software). It's not even that it's difficult... it's just incredibly time consuming to try and do things like maintain locations of annotations, centermarks, isometric dimensioning, show sheet metal parameters in your parts list, etc.

                                                                        • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                          John Sanchez

                                                                          Interesting, I've tried doing some simple modeling in Autodesks inventor and definately could never switch. Although, I didn't try detailing a print.... you got my curiosity up again. I definately respect the fact that there is free service pack upgrades with Inventor, i've always struggled with this concept SolidWorks has with its software improvements (Stand by your product!!).

                                                                  • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                    Neville Williams

                                                                    At a casual glance on share your score page

                                                                    http://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/shareyourscore.htm

                                                                     

                                                                    the CPU scores look a bit dismal for 2012 compared with 2011.

                                                                    There is no scientific filtering here, but just looking at processor specs (go to page link above) that go with these scores they seem to be about the same speed systems.

                                                                    2012 definitely seems to have a speed issue - why ??

                                                                    I wish someone from the SWX mothership would explain why we are buying "improved/updated" software that appears significantly slower !!!

                                                                     

                                                                                    2011                                                    2012

                                                                     

                                                                    2011 - 2012 perfornmance.jpg

                                                      • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                        Richard Bremmer

                                                        Hello Wayne,

                                                         

                                                        When you look at the parts and drawings that are used during the SW2012 test, you will see the test has been changed and 2011 tests can not be compared with the SW2012 tests.

                                                          • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                            Wayne Matus

                                                            Hi Richard,

                                                             

                                                            The parts, assemblies and drawings used in both tests are the same, except for both being in their current versions. Yes the test has changed in that the 2012 test also tests realview. The results have this number as a separate item and is not included in the total number. I would not think this would effect the results from 2011 to 2012 test on CPU and IO results. It is hard to say what effects it has on graphics. I am only assuming that realview is turned off in both tests of the graphics.

                                                             

                                                            I could not test like I wanted to. I wanted to be able to test while both versions were installed. I first tested 2012. The 2012 results were after a new install of 2012 and a defrag of hard drive after the installation. I ran the test 2 times and picked the best results.

                                                             

                                                            I then installed 2011 and tried to run the test on it, but it would not run because 2012 was installed. I then uninstalled both versions and cleaned registrty. I then installed 2011 and defragged again. I ran the test 2 times and picked the best results.

                                                             

                                                            I will say that in the two tests on the same version, there was about 20% difference in the results. What I shoudl have done is run each version test 10 times and use the average for my report.

                                                              • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                Wayne Matus

                                                                One other thing I would like to add is that the benchamrk test does not test the new functionality that will improve your real performance. If the carrier in 2012 took advantage of the freeze feature, the CPU results would be better.

                                                                 

                                                                Benchmark tests can only be used as guides. The real test is if you can produce more work and or better work with the new version on the same hardware.

                                                                  • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                    Neville Williams

                                                                    Wayne,

                                                                    I think you are being alot more even handed than SW deserve.

                                                                    You hit the nail on the head about the real test & producing more work.

                                                                    If the conditions of the test are so narrow and restrictive, it hardly reflects real world.

                                                                    If the program becomes so picky about these tests and the results they produce, what hope is there for us users in the REAL WORLD.

                                                                    I deal with quite involved projects with many configs sometimes and I'm finding I spend more and more time waiting, waiting, waiting...........................

                                                                    • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                      Unspecified Unspecified

                                                                      When designing complex machinery with in context features,

                                                                      the freeze feature is of very little use, I think I would

                                                                      never use it. Setting and unsetting options all the time to improve

                                                                      speed also takes time. It  also takes time to remember what was

                                                                      frozen and if this would cause update problems for in context

                                                                      features, it's tricky to use.

                                                                      This freeze option can't safe the basic performance loss.

                                                                      It would be better if basic performance is improved so we don't

                                                                      need these freeze functions.

                                                                       

                                                                      I still wonder what the performance loss is for rebuilding

                                                                      big section drawings when 2012 is compared to 2011.

                                                                      I hope someone can test it in W7.

                                                                • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                  Unspecified Unspecified

                                                                  Are these problems still the same or have new SPs  fixed this performance problem?

                                                                  Could anybody please do the test again between SW2011 and SW2012?

                                                                  I think the difference was big enough to be taken serious. My company didn't update because of these performance regressions in SW2012.

                                                                • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                  John Sanchez

                                                                  Chime in anytime SolidWorks Forum Administrator..... Save Face!!!

                                                                  • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                    Ryan Beck

                                                                    FWIW - Using my laptop in XP last week, I tested the rebuild times on a company part model and got identical rebuild times in both 2009 and 2012 versions.  Have not done much in the drawing side yet, but so far very nice transistion for us now.

                                                                     

                                                                    We are now all in Win7 and 2012 for a few days now...

                                                                    • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                      Eric Hilty

                                                                      Another to add to the list,

                                                                       

                                                                      New Dell M6600, Fresh instal of Win 7 sp1

                                                                       

                                                                      Fresh SW 2012, BM: 290

                                                                       

                                                                      Reformated and reimaged Win 7 sp1 (because once SW12 was on my system SW11 prefomance stopped working )

                                                                       

                                                                      Fresh SW 2011, BM: 206

                                                                       

                                                                      I did this because I noticed HUGE preformance issues when I finailly got around to upgrade to SW12 last week. Namely when I was mating a rather small assembly inside the comand the model stated to lag...

                                                                       

                                                                      Not a Happy SW user when a brand new workstation can't run basic model comands anymore.

                                                                       

                                                                      Reverting back to SW11, I might try again when SP3 is released, but seriouly concidering not renewing the sub script if it doesn't change soon.

                                                                       

                                                                      Cheers,

                                                                       

                                                                      EMH

                                                                      • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                        Magnus Whittall

                                                                        Out of curiousity has anyone adopted the new features that have been added to SolidWorks to specifically address perfomance issues? I speak of detached drawings, speedpak, lightweight, quickview & now feature freeeze? I met a mining company today that works on 30,000 component drawings and they have seen significant improvements using the feature freeze with a couple of tweeks. I will be putting in an enhancement request as this compmany has written an api that rattles through the assembly turning the freeze on or off.

                                                                         

                                                                        In reply to Eric, I would be contacting your reseller as I came across a similar issue with 2011 sp0 that was fixed in sp4. A very frustrating regression and I have my fingers crossed it has not come back again.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Cheers,

                                                                        Magnus

                                                                          • Re: Drawings are slower in 2012?
                                                                            Neville Williams

                                                                            Out of curiousity has anyone adopted the new features that have been added to SolidWorks to specifically address perfomance issues? I speak of detached drawings, speedpak, lightweight, quickview & now feature freeeze?

                                                                             

                                                                            I cannot speak for above features as I do not use them BUT

                                                                            the ISOLATE command now seems to be incredibly sloooooowwww ..........

                                                                            to complete. This is on a 1500 part assy isolating 5 components out.

                                                                             

                                                                            This is on a brand new install of OS Win7 fresh install 2012 SP2,

                                                                             

                                                                            Looks like another SP/update improvement/breakage