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modo vs. photoview 360

Question asked by Kumar Jambunathan on May 26, 2011
Latest reply on Jun 2, 2011 by Jarvis Ward

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HI guys, I have done some searching as well as looking at both the luxology and solidworks websites/presentations on modo 501 with the sw plug-in vs. photoview 360. I understand they are based on the same technology, but I was curious if there was a reason to get modo over photoview 360. The ironic thing is that modo seems to be able to do everything that Photoview 360 can do PLUS more, and yet modo is significantly cheaper than photoview 360. Why would I buy photoview 360 over modo? Any input would be appreciated.

Paul McCrorey May 26, 2011 2:41 PM

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Kumar,

This question is really about what do you want to do with it. Are you doing quick renders? Then PV360 is really hard to beat - assuming you have Solidworks already. PV360 2011 has a decent amount of control over materials and such and you can also do animation using the Solidworks motion editor. Although, I would say if you are wanting to do animation, you should look at getting modo with the Solidworks Kit.

The price difference you are seeing isn't apples to apples. Solidworks is a parametric modeler - used to make real stuff. modo is a very powerful visualization tool used to make stuff look real. The awesome thing is that you can now use your SW data to produce visualizations.

If you go to my site, I have more info on the Solidworks to modo transition. Also if you plan on getting modo and the SW kit, you should find a discount code there.

http://www.mccroreydigital.com

Paul

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John Burrill May 26, 2011 2:35 PM
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Well, Photoview 360 comes with Solidworks Professional and I wasn't aware that you could buy it separately
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Paul McCrorey May 26, 2011 2:41 PM
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Kumar,

This question is really about what do you want to do with it. Are you doing quick renders? Then PV360 is really hard to beat - assuming you have Solidworks already. PV360 2011 has a decent amount of control over materials and such and you can also do animation using the Solidworks motion editor. Although, I would say if you are wanting to do animation, you should look at getting modo with the Solidworks Kit.

The price difference you are seeing isn't apples to apples. Solidworks is a parametric modeler - used to make real stuff. modo is a very powerful visualization tool used to make stuff look real. The awesome thing is that you can now use your SW data to produce visualizations.

If you go to my site, I have more info on the Solidworks to modo transition. Also if you plan on getting modo and the SW kit, you should find a discount code there.

http://www.mccroreydigital.com

Paul
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- Kumar Jambunathan @ Paul McCrorey on May 26, 2011 3:36 PM
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  Thanks for all the replies so far.
  
  I should clarify that I am currently a solidworks user with just the basic package (not premium which has photoview 360). I can upgrade to get photoview 360, but that costs more than the whole modo package with the sw kit.
  
  I know Phil stated in his video that that the Modo with sw kit is bascially photoview 360 plus more and so it seemed natural if that was true, AND its cheaper,just to get modo with the kit. I was curious, however, if there were people who purposely went with photoview 360 over the modo with sw kit option and why.
  
  I do all my modeling (as of now) in solidworks. I have 2011 basic. I plan on doing basic rendering at first. I don't know where I will end up with this, which is why the additional power of modo seemed appealing. Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated.
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  - Paul McCrorey @ Kumar Jambunathan on May 26, 2011 3:58 PM
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    Kumar,
    
    Couple of things....PV360 is a subset of modo. The SWkit is an add-on that does several things - makes the UI more familiar for SW users not familiar with modo, enhanced geometry importer, several hours of training vids - includes great mat'l presets and environments (PAD and SES).
    
    If you are planning on doing more than basic rendering, you might consider modo...however, you can get pretty intricate renders with PV360 2011. THe gap between rendering capability is certainly lessening with each release of PV360. However, the current animation offering (motion manger) for me is too unstable to work with compared to modo or other packages out there.
    
    I haven't priced the upgrade to PV360 lately, but if it's that much more, then I would definitely consider modo.
    
    Paul
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  - Jeff Holliday @ Kumar Jambunathan on May 26, 2011 4:51 PM
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    PV comes standard with the Pro version also, not just with Premium. This would be substantially less of an upgrade price from basic.
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- David Paulson @ Paul McCrorey on May 26, 2011 4:00 PM
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  Paul,
  
  I have found one of the significant limitations with PV360 is the ability to create your own materials, at least in SW2009. PW seems to have more capability to create materials. Can you compare Modo's ability to create custom materials with PV360 and PW?
  
  Thanks for your insight, and the discount code as I am about 95% convinced that Modo is much better than waiting for incremental improvements with each release. I used to think that the best part of each SW release was the inclusion of new materials in PW.
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  - Paul McCrorey @ David Paulson on May 26, 2011 4:19 PM
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    David...
    
    Yeah - with 2009, the materials couldn't be directly edited. As far as modo's ability to create custom materials,..I am struggling to see a limitation...If you take a look at this link you'll be amazed at what you can do.
    
    http://www.luxology.com/asset/materials/
    
    Bottom line, this is a major strength of modo.
    
    I know PW as pretty flexible but there was still stuff 'under the hood' on it. I used to get frustrated when making changes and not getting expected results. This is probably due to my unfamiliarity as there are several on this forum who can produce stunning renders with PW...however, I love the ease with which you can produce great renders with PV360/modo.
    
    Paul
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    - Rob Rodríguez @ Paul McCrorey on May 26, 2011 4:38 PM
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      Just to chime in here.
      
      In terms of PV360 vs modo on materials.
      In 2011 PV360 basically has all the same material capabilities that PhotoWorks had with the exception of displacement. PV360 2011 has displacement and PW didn't. Modo and PV360 materials are the same the difference being PV360 only exposes the controls SW wants the user to see and modo gives the user every control imaginable. Therefore modo has more capability because it gives you more control.
      
      In terms of modo VS PV360.
      SW Pro has other features than just PV360 so it's not entirely fair to say all of the upgrade price is for PV360 but, if all you need is PV360 then..................
      
      You have to remember PV360 is designed by SW to be a "push button" rendering application. It gives you the tools to put out good quality images in a short amount of time. If you need/want to take the next step then a good logical choice is moving to modo. It's going to give you the power you need, it's going to feel like PV360 (with the kit) and it works very nicely with SW files. It's going to take some time to learn but if you need the capability if offers then the time is a good investment.
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      - David Paulson @ Rob Rodríguez on May 26, 2011 6:22 PM
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        Rob,
        
        I appreciate your and Paul's insight to material creation in PW, PV360 and Modo. I never adopted PV360 because there was no way to use custom materials that I had developed in PW. Specifically, finned surface heat exchange coils used in HVAC units. In PW I could use a jpeg image to create a custom material for the heat exchange surface which would tile in to the model, but not as seamlessly as desired. What was desired is to be able to create the finned surface in SW using copper tubes and aluminum fins and then create a material that would not only have the color, but the bitmap to match the fins. So, it is nice to know that this is conceivable in Modo.
        
        The Recoil plug-in for Modo for $199.00 knid of makes the decision to buy acedemic for me. Recoil looks like a lot of FUN............. And hopefully it will use SW models????
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        Paul McCrorey @ David Paulson on May 27, 2011 12:55 AM
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        Hey David,
        
        I recorded a quick video on doing the fin thing in modo. You can actually do it in PV360 2011 as well...I used displacement and some of the 'emodo' textures that ship with 501. In PV360, you'd need an image that give you the proper black/gray/white gradients to drive the geometry.
        
        As far as recoil goes, it is awesome. To be honest, I think it's got some great potential to bring a little more intuitive mechanical feel to the rigging in modo. I would say that w/out a doubt, the 'mate' system in Solidworks is more intuitive from a mechanical standpoint. However, recoil has 'hinges' and other mechanical type joints that work pretty well. And coupled with gravity and other outside forces it operates pretty realistically.
        
        Enjoy...
        
        Link to video:
        http://mccroreydigital.com/Tutorials/CopperTube_Fin/copperTube_fins.mp4
        
        Paul
        paul (at) mccroreydigital (dot) com
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        David Paulson @ Paul McCrorey on May 29, 2011 3:17 AM
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        Paul,
        
        I want to thank you so much for your excellent response to my question about the ability to create custom materials in Modo vs. PV360. I think your response was the best that I have ever seen on this forum.
        
        I purchased PhotoWorks in 1998 as I recall for about the price of Modo today. For a few years SolidWorks would provide a few new materials, but to make some of the products that we produce realistic required development of our own appearances. Clearly PhotoWorks is not in the same league as Modo when it comes to creation of custom appearances. And PV360 didn't even have the capability, at least until recently. I'm not sure that PW has evolved significantly in the almost fourteen years since I first purchased it. I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling that SW will evolve PV360 much more quickly either. At a bare minimum I would like to be able to use appearances available on Luxology's web site in PV360.
        
        I am looking forward to the transition to Modo and am happy to hear that SW is working with Modo to make the two products even more compatible. And Recoil for $199, ........ it really is a no brainer. SW would charge at leat $1000 for annimation with recoil physics capabilities.
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        Rob Rodríguez @ David Paulson on May 27, 2011 8:47 AM
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        Hi David,
        Looks like Paul covered the heat exchnager fins in modo pretty well. You can achieve the same thing in PV360 2011. The difference is the image used for displacement. In PV360 you'd have to create that image in a photoediting program (like PhotoShop, gimp, Corel, etc) and then use that in PV360. You wouldn't be able to directly create displacement image inside of PV360. In PV360 this functionality is found on the surface finish tab of the appearance.
        
        It's not specific to heat exchanger fins but there is a video covering the topic here http://www.javelin-tech.com/blog/2011/03/photoview-360-surface-finish-overview-video/
        
        As far as recoil. Yeah, it's awesome.
        
        Really all of the modo kits (splash, HDRE, SLIK, SES) they are all very good and easy to use and all work with your SW geometry.
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  - Ron Bates @ David Paulson on May 26, 2011 4:30 PM
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    Hi David,
    
    Just to clarify, PV 360 was a standalone product in 2009 and 2010. And it is true you could not make, and re-use custom materials. In 2011, PV 360 is integrated into SolidWorks and you can now create and re-use custom materials for your rendering.
    
    A full blown Modo license is obviously going to have even more material editing capability so you can do even more. And the asset sharing site on Luxology's webiste is great. We do hope to leverage that sharing site in PV 360 in the future so people can create custom materials in either Modo or PV 360 and share them.
    
    Ron
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Jonathan Ridley May 26, 2011 5:08 PM
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Kumar,

I primarily use PhotoWorks or PhotoView 360(2011 SP3.0) and find it does a good job for us. 2011 SP3.0 is a big improvement. There is a learning curve with Modo that I think is steeper then most all of SW, but you probably can achieve better high res results if you put the time in to learn all of the tools and workflows. If you plan to still pay the subscription service each year for SW then you might as well hold off on the Modo.

If PV360 is not in your basic package and you can not get a better deal form the SW sales then Modo could be a good option.

If you plan to do high res renderings/animations and jump over to Modo for the future, and phase SW out of workflows (probably what I will do) with no yearly costs then get Modo.

My 2 cents.

Jonathan
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Ron Bates May 26, 2011 4:51 PM
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I was typing away here when Rob chimed in with pretty much what I was getting at as well. I'll post it anyhow...

There is NO direct upgrade to PhotoView 360 from SW Basic. This is another reason it's not an "apples to apples" comparison. The cost to get PhotoView 360 is the cost of SolidWorks Professional...which also includes basic data management tools, Toolbox, SW Utilities, and more.

Modo is a brilliant product for the price. The kits are great as well and the new SW Kit is big help for people needing to make a transition. If all you need is rendering, and you feel you might want to go beyond the basics that the integreated PhotoView 360 offers, then I wouldn't hesitate to get Modo. On the flip side, there's a reason we only expose some of the power of Modo. Ease of use, simplicity and integration can pay huge dividends to most users that cannot spend the time on a new and separate product.

We are partners with Luxology, and rather than try to compete with other high end rendering products and complicate our own rendering solution by putting every possible feature and option in, we want you to consider Modo when your needs for rendering and animation go beyond what we offer in SolidWorks. We'll continue enhancing and adding a bit more to PV 360 over time. But we will always strive for "out of the box" simplicity. And we'll always be careful about adding too many features that we feel might compromise this. We will also continue working with Luxology to enhance the partnership, and enhance the sharing of assets and model data, so for those people that do move to Modo, they have a more seamless transition.

Ron
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- Jarvis Ward @ Ron Bates on Jun 1, 2011 5:23 PM
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  Ron
  I'm glad to hear you intend on further developing your integration of PV 360.
  when do you think the SW Kit for Modo might instead become a part of the Solidworks Pro package PV 360?
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  - Anna Wood @ Jarvis Ward on Jun 1, 2011 6:09 PM
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    Jarvis,
    
    Can you go in more detail on what you would expect the SW Kit for Modo to do for you in SW?
    
    I am curious on what your thinking is there. The Kit was created by Luxology to ease importing SW files into Modo to continue working in Modo. Not sure why you would need the kit in SW.
    
    Or are you asking for a kit that would ease the import of Modo files into SolidWorks?
    
    Curious as to what you are looking for......
    
    Cheers,
    
    Anna
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    - Jarvis Ward @ Anna Wood on Jun 2, 2011 8:54 AM
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      Anna,
      It's quite simple, for day to day visual communications with business and engineering, 360 is a faster easier tool than Photoworks.
      Industrial Design needs more flexibility at the high end, but Modo is the wrong application for this. The SW Kit simply bolts on some utility to a package from another industry trying to be something it's not. (I imagine this sounds similar to the complaints from engineers who said Photoworks was way too complex and difficult to learn for their needs)
      
      I doubt Luxology has much more interest in altering Modo beyond the kit, untill they do, we'll stick with Keyshot for presentation renderings.
      I would love to see Solidworks add more of the capability from Modo, one seamless workflow in one package may never happen but that's always been SW stated goal.
      Hope this answered your question.
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