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Why aren't you using SpeedPak to boost assembly performance?

Question asked by Julie Napolitan on Mar 23, 2011
Latest reply on Aug 1, 2012 by Doug Rawlings

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All,

In SolidWorks 2009 SpeedPak was introduced to help with performance problems in large assemblies.

Here's an excerpt on SpeedPak from the Help files:

SpeedPak creates a simplified configuration of an assembly without losing references. If you work with very large and complex assemblies, using a SpeedPak configuration can significantly improve performance while working in the assembly and its drawing.

A SpeedPak configuration is essentially a subset of the parts and faces of an assembly. Unlike regular configurations, where you can simplify an assembly only by suppressing components, SpeedPak simplifies without suppressing. Therefore, you can substitute a SpeedPak configuration for the full assembly in higher level assemblies without losing references. Because only a subset of the parts and faces is used, memory usage is reduced, which can increase performance of many operations.

After talking to a number of customers we've found that many of you are struggling with large assembly performance but aren't using SpeedPak to simplify subassemblies.

Why not? I've heard a number of reasons from customers that I've visited but if you could post your answers here for discussion that would be great. And I'll try to answer any questions you may have about the current functionality.

Thanks,

Julie

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Adrian Velazquez Mar 23, 2011 4:52 PM
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Hi Julie,

We actually are one of the companies you visited, the main reasons were aren't using SpeedPak (in SW2009):

1. Parts can not be SpeedPak
-We use simplified Part Version ( Save Assembly as Part) of some of our Machinery in Large Layouts

2. We can only do SpeedPak configurations in one level of the Assembly
-Some Engineers need to work on different subassemblies at different or at the same time, it is hard to determine what an where could be SpeedPaked.

3. SpeedPaked components don't render in photoview 360

4. Some Bugs (Drawings mainly)

Again, this is for SolidWorks 2009. We made the conclusion of not using it after a couple of weeks of trying it when we moved to 09. We are looking forward to moving to SW11 and give it a second try.
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Andy Sanders Mar 24, 2011 11:20 AM
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Our main reason would be "fear of the unknown".

My first admission would be that I honestly haven't investigated them yet to know what their capabilities are.

That being said, I would be afraid of the downstream implications of speedpaks. Mainly how does it affect drawings with properties (description, part number etc) and how it displays in a drawing.

I'd hate to gain performance, but lose confidence that when my boss or someone on the shop floor prints a drawing, will all my data be displayed at a production level quality? Or do we have to switch it back to non-speedpak configs to properly display everything?

I'd really like to know how this would work because a performance increase would obviously be nice. I just am afraid of bugs and gotchas.

If you can help me out here a bit and explain what gets lost (or not) in the process of using them, I might be more willing to give it a try.

The ultimate for this kind of functionality would be to make it as "transparent" to the user as possible. What I mean is, speedpak is nice, but you have to take the time to set it up, pick your surfaces and references, etc and manage it. If it could be more like flip a switch on a part/assembly and BAM you now have a speedpak part without any fear of downstream negatives, I'd be sold.

Sorry to be negative without even using the feature. I just don't want to have it bite me in the behind later!

Can anyone enlighten me on the pluses/minuses of using it?
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Tom Strohscher Mar 24, 2011 11:59 AM
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I've tried to use speed pack on a large project I'm currently working on.

When I add a speed pack to a sub assembly I usually select the whole part to include rather then faces.

When looking at my main assembly I only see the parts I selected in the speed pack. I don't see the complete subassembly "ghosting" like it should. I had to go into every speed pac every time I switched active files.

I got an e-mail from support saying a fix has been implemented.

The following SPR (SolidWorks Performance Report) status has changed to Closed (Implemented).

SR# (Service Request): 1-1921845991
SPR#: 578800
Description: Some components are hidden after you update a speedpak in a large assembly (seen on x64)
Status: Closed (Implemented).
Version: none none
The following SPR (SolidWorks Performance Report) status has changed to Closed (Implemented).

SR# (Service Request): 1-1921845991
SPR#: 578800
Description: Some components are hidden after you update a speedpak in a large assembly (seen on x64)
Status: Closed (Implemented).
Version: none none

I have not upgraded to 2011 yet to see if the fix works. We are waiting for someone else to work out the bugs. I'm running 2010 SP4 Win 7 x64.

I have not tried it in drawings yet. It must work there too.
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Jeff Holliday Mar 24, 2011 1:04 PM
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I know there are many users that can benefit from the constant improvements being made in large assy handling. I suspect there are likely many more who really do not get involved with large assembly files. Our company falls in that category. A large assy to us seldom means more than 40 components.
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Steve Calvert Mar 24, 2011 1:58 PM
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Julie, we use Smarteam, as I'm sure you remember since you visited us in the past and with ST each configuration that is created toggles ST to ask for a profile card. Is that creating a Speedpak creates a dirived configuration of and existing configuration. Is this the correct method or can I just create a speedpak configuration like any other configuration?

BTW, I just did a test on a simple assy and it does create a dirived (simple) configuration. I'd like to be able to create a regular configuration or maybe be able to edit the name of the speedpak config.

Steve
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Adrian Velazquez @ Steve Calvert on Mar 24, 2011 2:00 PM
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Yes,

The fact that the SpeedPak is created as a configuration is a real dilema because we use configurations for other purposes.
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Steve Calvert @ Adrian Velazquez on Mar 24, 2011 2:05 PM
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I don't mind the extra configurations just not dirived. We have mthods in Smarteam to have simplified configs used without having to create a smarteam profile card.

BTW, I saw that mask or one like it at our local rodeo fair and thought of you. I almost bought it...

Steve
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Adrian Velazquez @ Steve Calvert on Mar 24, 2011 2:18 PM
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It's from one of Mexico's most Iconic Luchadors Dr. Wagner, Ihave two of his masks, Google him (other cool Mascaras to collect: Dos Caras, Huracan Ramirez, Mil Mascaras)

Sorry for the hijak
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Jiral Parikh Mar 24, 2011 2:45 PM
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We gave it a try when speedpak was introduced and very well adveritsed. Found plenty of bugs and limitations. Wasted lot of time and then stopped using it.
Now, it has improved. But then, we have lost interest and do not want to go through same things we have went through in the past.
May be that's just us.
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John Rajcic Mar 25, 2011 12:00 PM
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We have our entire helicopter in Solidworks and I have been trying to use speedpaks to improve performance. However, I have come across multiple problems.

When I try and open one of our top level assemblies I will click the "Use Speedpak" option to try and load the subassemblies in their speedpak configuration. It has never worked for us. I saved all of our major subassemblies with a speedpak configuration but the top level assemblies never open with them as a speedpak. Maybe I am confused on how to use this option but it doesn't seem to do anything. Once the assembly is open I can right click on subassemblies and say use speedpak but the top level assembly won't open with them as speedpaks to start.

The only way I can get our top level assemblies to open with all of the subassemblies in their speedpak configuration is to create a configuration of the top level assembly that has all of the subassemblies loaded in their speedpak configuration. Then when opening the top level assembly I have to change the pulldown configuration box and select the speedpak configuration.

Also, every time I open a top level assembly as desribed above, the subassemblies claim that their speedpak is out of date (this happens every time, even if nothing has changed). I have a series of yellow warnings running down my entire assembly. The only way to "update" these subassemblies is to open them all up which defeats the purpose of the speedpak.

Once I go through all the steps to open a top level assembly with all of the subassemblies as speedpaks I have also come across other issues. I never use the remove ghost option but quite often various components of subassemblies are not visible. Sometimes entire subassemblies are not visible. I have had a bunch of mates freak out too and then once I take the subassembly out of speedpak the errors go away.

We had solidworks 2006 here until this year when I was finally able to convice the company to upgrade to 2011. Everyone was pretty opposed to the idea and I have been getting nothing but grief from everyone since the switch. Everyone is convinced the old version was faster and that the new features just slow things down. Speedpaks were one of my selling points but I haven't been able to take full advantage of them. Although it has helped in some instances, they seem to be few and far between. When I keep an assembly's last saved configuration as a speedpak it seems to work a lot better. For example, we have an entire turbine engine in solidworks that previously was a nightmare to open. I converted it to a speedpak and only made the mounting locations usuable faces. Now we can actually get views of our helicopter with the turbine engine shown. Although it sometimes will only show part of the engine, I have been able to work around it.

I like the new version despite the problems but some of the engineers are demanding we go back to 2006.
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Richard Montminy Mar 24, 2011 9:07 PM
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I've tried it and here's what I experienced. We build 19" racks for lots of our systems. These racks are populated with different versions of our components (eg... different models of power supplies for instance). These power supplies are usually 1/2 rack x 1 or 2U tall. Anyone familiar with racks and cabinets will know what I mean. Anyway, I took one of our power supplies which comes in 10 different models (10 configurations, 1 for each model. Furthermore each one of these configurations has a simplified configuration so that only the parts visible from the outside are unsupressed). I created a speedpak for each of the simplified configurations. Then I used these speedpaks in a parent assembly to create a bom. By default, our boms need to show all components. Some subassemblies are phantoms and need to show only the children but for lots of subassemblies we don't show child components so the bom never shows anything more than the sub assembly level for these items. The problem I had with speedpak is that the option to hide child components when used in a bom is not available. This means that the bom for a rack that would normally be the cabinet, the power supply model(s), and any hardware now shows every component within the power supply. Hardware, circuit boards, connectors, wire, everything.
For what we do, speedpak could save us lots of time if it were not for this glitch.
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Alessandro Frattini Mar 27, 2011 9:36 AM
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The idea is good, but some bugs decided me to abandon.
I attach an example.
I can't mate some face because are selected wrongly.
This is en example, but there are other bugs.
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- Speedpak.png116.5 KB
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David Anderson Mar 27, 2011 10:26 AM
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what is classified as a large assembly? is it number of parts or file size? seems to me part complexity has a large role in how fast sw runs.

i have an assembly listed below that is a pig in SW2011 AND my computer is no slouch (check out my machine specs).

one thing i can be sure of is that if SW was using more than 1/8 of my 8 processors this "speedpak" clouge would not be necessary on an assembly this size. i have chosen not to use speedpak because it is one more link in the data chain and am not willing to risk data loss for speed. that being said, i will however give it a try to see if it increases modeling speed.
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- large.JPG33.9 KB
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Matt Lombard Mar 27, 2011 12:34 PM
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I don't make large assemblies, so it's not surprising that I don't use speed paks. More control over rebuilds (when they happen) and faster individual part rebuilds are the performance enhancements that would help people with complex parts.
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Julie Napolitan @ Steve Calvert on Mar 28, 2011 11:22 AM
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Hi Steve,

Unfortunately a SpeedPak can only be created as a derived configuration, as you suspected.

You mentioned that editing the name of the SpeedPak derived configuration might work too. As you have probably noticed this isn't currently possible but it's certainly something we can investigate.

Thanks,
Julie
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Julie Napolitan @ Adrian Velazquez on Mar 28, 2011 12:32 PM
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Hi Adrian,

Thanks for the response--I have a few comments/questions:

1. Parts can not be SpeedPak
-We use simplified Part Version ( Save Assembly as Part) of some of our Machinery in Large Layouts

A workaround is to put the simplified part into an assembly as the only component and create a SpeedPak. It sounds like you aren't concerned about an accurate BOM in this case? We can certainly investigate the idea of SpeedPaking a part.

2. We can only do SpeedPak configurations in one level of the Assembly
-Some Engineers need to work on different subassemblies at different or at the same time, it is hard to determine what an where could be SpeedPaked.

As of 2010 you can SpeedPak a Speedpak--so you can have multiple levels of SpeedPak'd subassemblies.
But it doesn't sound like being able to create multiple levels of Speedpak'd subassemblies solves your problem.
When I visited you last year we discussed how you have different engineers working on different subsystems of the top level assembly, which is fairly standard in the design of large machinery/plants. I can see that it might be challenging to determine exactly what needs to be included in the SpeedPaks of lower level assemblies particularly if different engineers are working on higher level assemblies.

3. SpeedPaked components don't render in photoview 360

You can still use SpeedPak configs when working on the design and switch to fully resolved models to do a rendering. In 2011 it's much easier to switch all subassemblies between the SpeedPak configuration and the parent configuration.

4. Some Bugs (Drawings mainly)

This is a subject we're interested in exploring further. Do you expect to create fully detailed drawings using SpeedPak'd models? Currently you can only reference geometry that is included in the SpeedPak.

Thanks,
Julie
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Julie Napolitan @ Andy Sanders on Mar 28, 2011 1:17 PM
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Hi Andy,

Can you expand a bit on the idea of SpeedPaks in drawings? Many customers I have spoken with don't use SpeedPak at all because of issues with drawings. Honestly there are some limitations in this area and we understand the concern.

However I'm not sure I understand why limitations in drawings prevents the use of SpeedPak entirely?

I'd hate to gain performance, but lose confidence that when my boss or someone on the shop floor prints a drawing, will all my data be displayed at a production level quality? Or do we have to switch it back to non-speedpak configs to properly display everything?

Why not use SpeedPak for performance gains while working with the assembly, and then switch to parent configurations to work on the drawing? Is there just too much overhead to make SP useful?

The ultimate for this kind of functionality would be to make it as "transparent" to the user as possible. What I mean is, speedpak is nice, but you have to take the time to set it up, pick your surfaces and references, etc and manage it. If it could be more like flip a switch on a part/assembly and BAM you now have a speedpak part without any fear of downstream negatives, I'd be sold.

I've heard this quite a bit as well--if automatic SPs (with, for instance, all exterior faces included) were created with every new assembly would that be useful to you, or would it become an annoyance to have derived SP configs that you might not use?

If you can help me out here a bit and explain what gets lost (or not) in the process of using them, I might be more willing to give it a try.

When you create a SP you select bodies and/or faces to include. You can choose to include nothing if you just want a graphical representation of the assembly. In downstream assemblies the included geometry can be referenced, but the rest of the assembly is view-only. This applies to drawings as well; if you want to dimension your SP drawing you need to include the geometry you want to reference. "Insert Model Items" can't be used to bring in dimensions, as these things are not included in the SP. Currently SpeedPaks must be updated manually if the parent configuration is modified, which can lead to a number of out-of-date warnings in SP and incorrect mass properties. A SpeedPak assembly can be very useful if you need to see a subassembly for reference--you can choose to include the faces needed for mating the subassembly and leave the rest as a graphical representation. As you can imagine this increases your performance when working with the upper level assembly.

Thanks for replying even though you don't use SP--this feedback helps us figure out what can be done to make SpeedPak more useful to everyone.

Thanks,
Julie
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Andy Sanders @ Julie Napolitan on Mar 28, 2011 2:24 PM
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Julie Napolitan wrote:

Hi Andy,

Can you expand a bit on the idea of SpeedPaks in drawings? Many customers I have spoken with don't use SpeedPak at all because of issues with drawings. Honestly there are some limitations in this area and we understand the concern.

-->I guess it stems from the previous "lightweight" option. We had some issues with BOM not being populated properly, causing major headaches.

However I'm not sure I understand why limitations in drawings prevents the use of SpeedPak entirely?

-->Same as above, but your explanation kind of got the light bulb to turn on above my head. Now I see that since they are configuration based, they can be used as a "simplified configuraion" that I've used many times before. This may be a good way to streamline this, because I currently make simplified derived configs of a whole lot of my parts.

Why not use SpeedPak for performance gains while working with the assembly, and then switch to parent configurations to work on the drawing? Is there just too much overhead to make SP useful?

-->This is pretty much exactly what I do with my simplified configs, as above.

I've heard this quite a bit as well--if automatic SPs (with, for instance, all exterior faces included) were created with every new assembly would that be useful to you, or would it become an annoyance to have derived SP configs that you might not use?

-->Maybe. But I think I'd like more control of it because I don't need simplfied parts all the time. Maybe 25-50% of the time at most.

When you create a SP you select bodies and/or faces to include. You can choose to include nothing if you just want a graphical representation of the assembly. In downstream assemblies the included geometry can be referenced, but the rest of the assembly is view-only. This applies to drawings as well; if you want to dimension your SP drawing you need to include the geometry you want to reference. "Insert Model Items" can't be used to bring in dimensions, as these things are not included in the SP. Currently SpeedPaks must be updated manually if the parent configuration is modified, which can lead to a number of out-of-date warnings in SP and incorrect mass properties. A SpeedPak assembly can be very useful if you need to see a subassembly for reference--you can choose to include the faces needed for mating the subassembly and leave the rest as a graphical representation. As you can imagine this increases your performance when working with the upper level assembly.

-->Thanks for the clarification and info!

Thanks for replying even though you don't use SP--this feedback helps us figure out what can be done to make SpeedPak more useful to everyone.

-->That's what this forum should be all about!

Message was edited by: Andy Sanders
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Julie Napolitan @ John Rajcic on Mar 28, 2011 2:05 PM
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Hi John,

When I try and open one of our top level assemblies I will click the "Use Speedpak" option to try and load the subassemblies in their speedpak configuration. It has never worked for us. I saved all of our major subassemblies with a speedpak configuration but the top level assemblies never open with them as a speedpak. Maybe I am confused on how to use this option but it doesn't seem to do anything. Once the assembly is open I can right click on subassemblies and say use speedpak but the top level assembly won't open with them as speedpaks to start.

Can you look in Tools, Options, Performance and see if "No preview during open" is checked on? This may be the reason the Use SpeedPak checkbox isn't working for you.

SPR 598570
'Use Speedpak' option in open dialog does not work if the 'no preview during open option' is selected.

Also, every time I open a top level assembly as desribed above, the subassemblies claim that their speedpak is out of date (this happens every time, even if nothing has changed). I have a series of yellow warnings running down my entire assembly. The only way to "update" these subassemblies is to open them all up which defeats the purpose of the speedpak.

This is another issue I've heard from other customers. Currently you must manually update SpeedPaks if the parent configuration changes. It sounds like you may be running into a bug that causes SolidWorks to think the parent config has changed, which causes an out-of-date error. If you could choose to update all SpeedPaks automatically (whenever the parent config is changed) would that help?

Thanks,
Julie
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John Rajcic @ Julie Napolitan on Mar 30, 2011 1:49 PM
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Thanks, unchecking "no preview during open" fixed the speedpak checkbox issue.

Also, being able to update the Speedpaks automatically would be helpful, depending on how long that operation took. Fixing the bug that causes the out-of-date error would also be very helpful.

I am also not noticing a difference in speed when I open a top level assy with the sub assemblies as speedpaks. I have one assembly with 1013 components that takes about 1:23 to open normally. When I check the use speedpak option to open the assembly with all of the sub assemblies as speedpaks it still takes 1:30 to open, even though there are only 158 components. If I suppress those sub assemblies and open the top level assembly with those suppressed it takes :30 to open.

The biggest complaint I hear from the other engineers is the time to open, save, and go between assemblies. I am hoping I can use the speedpaks to drastically reduce those times.
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Adrian Velazquez @ Julie Napolitan on Mar 30, 2011 6:33 PM
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Julie, thanks for your suggestios.

As I mentioned we encountered this issues when we moved to SW09 two years ago, so I don't recall all the details; but the fact is that it didn't convince us. We were looking in to Speedpak mainly for our proposal Facility Layouts. This are very fast projects, we have about a week to develop a good size facility, so edit and creating SpeedPaks on the fly was not worth the effort. We were looking for something more long term, like creating a SPk on a library compoment then using those library components (Assemblies and/or Parts) on our Layouts without having to mess with the SPk.

We're moving to SW11 in the upcoming weeks, we'll definitely look into SpeedPaks again.
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Joseph Ankers Mar 31, 2011 3:42 AM
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we recently had a demo at out SWUG meeting.

If im honest our assemblies are a few 1000 parts, and as yet we have not had any problems.

From watching the demonstration, it looked like it was a bit of hassle to get to work on an existing assembly,

also, i think i understand why you can not do it. but if it was simple to use For example you had your settings set in a options menu,

but speed back was more like "light weight"/"resolved" where you could just right click on a assembly in the tree or something along this idea. Maybe this is complete woffle as ive never needed or attempted to use is (as of yet). however i can see some areas in our desgin where it could be usefull.

also fear of the unknown i guess.
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Chris Mueller Mar 31, 2011 5:26 AM
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One of the hinderances for us, is that we are not using speed packs from the start, but as soon as an assmbly is too large to handle. We create a speed-pak in one of the larger sub-assemblies and then change the sub-assembly to the speedpacked configuration in the main assembly. Problem is then that the main assembly can easily loose its mate references, so we have a huge job to re-define all the mates so that they will work with the speedpak.

Another issue is of course the out of date speedpacks. Could we have the Enterprise PDM task manager update them when they get checked in?
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Julie Napolitan @ Chris Mueller on Mar 31, 2011 9:37 AM
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Hi Chris,

Is the main assembly losing mate references because the mated faces haven't been included in the SpeedPak? Or is something else happening?

What if there were a semi-automatic method to create a SpeedPak for an existing assembly. SolidWorks could, for instance, go through the top level assembly and determine the mate references for subassemblies then create SPs for the subassemblies, automatically including the mated faces. This is just an idea, but does it seem like something that would make SP more useful to you?

Thanks,
Julie
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Chris Mueller @ Julie Napolitan on Mar 31, 2011 9:42 AM
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Yes, that would absolutely be huge improvement in the Speedpak usability. Let us say that you didn't even need to open the sub-assembly, that you just from the top-level, could select "Make a speedpak configuration", and SW makes one while keeping all mate references available. I think you would have to be at the top-level anyway in order for SW to know which mate references are being used.
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