44 Replies Latest reply on Jul 25, 2014 4:52 PM by Alex Taguchi

    Should you edit the model from the drawing?

    Melissa Appel

      We know that customers are divided about whether or not it's good to edit the model from the drawing, say by changing a dimension or a hole position in the drawing and having the model update. Our survey results seem to show a 50/50 split. People who are for it say that it's the easiest way to make a simple change to the model during the manufacturing phase. People who are against it say that one should never edit the model without seeing the full 3D context, to avoid unintended consequences.

       

      What do you think?

        • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
          Glenn Schroeder

          I never make changes in a drawing, but my drawings are almost always of assemblies and not just parts.  I want to see what the change looks like in the assembly before going back to the drawing, but if the drawing was of a fairly simple part I can see where it might work OK.

          • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
            Scott McFadden

            I always edit my model in the model.  Not from the drawing.

            Because 9 times out of 10 there are other things that need to be changed as well

            from a model stand point.

            • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
              Matt Rohr

              I think if you're familiar with the model and built enough intelligence into your design to know what you can or can't change safely from the drawing - then go for it. However - If (for instance) you're making a change to a part that was perhaps designed by a co-worker then it's probably safer to open the 3D and investigate a bit before making changes. I think this is a judgement call based on how familiar you are with the model in question.

              • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                Wayne Tiffany

                I basically always go to the model to make changes.  It's there that you see the ramifications of what you do.

                 

                But, if you are product based, and the drawing is of one part, and you are the one tasked with making the drawing change because someone else has already studied the situation, then I can see some value there.  And the fact that people have been able to do it in the past means that it would have to be a pretty darn good reason to take that away from them.

                 

                WT

                • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                  Alessandro Frattini

                  Hi,

                  I'm alone, but I edit the part from the drawing because I import model items.

                  I project everything, sheet metal parts, milled parts, turned parts, plastic parts and cast iron parts.

                  Sometimes I need open the part, but usually I edit from drawings.

                  Please don't remove this, add a document option.

                  This option is present in the registry and it's a hidden feature.

                  Someone that use SW from 1997 remember that during the installation there was an option similar this:

                  'Do you want edit the model from the drawing ?'

                   

                  In Solid Edge, if you change dimension in the part, the dimension in the drafting become underilned to inform to the user which dimensions are changed.

                  • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                    Damian Gillespie

                    Each to there own but for me no. Especially if you work in context as you don't really see the effect on other in context parts.

                    Cheers

                    Damian

                    • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                      David Oustifine

                      I vote against...

                       

                      I like going to the model and usually do not use the model items in my drawings.

                      • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                        Brandon Klar

                        I edit from the drawing because I go through the "trouble" of importing the model dims into my drawings. To me it's worth it and it's good functionality.

                        • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                          Anna Wood

                          Against for the reason you state.  Unintended consequences.  They are costly......

                           

                          Cheers,

                           

                          Anna

                          • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                            Dave Lelonek

                            Against, but don't remove the option for the user to decide.

                            • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                              Kelvin Lamport

                              I am the only user of SolidWorks at my company, and I literally know my designs inside out. I use Insert > Model Items wherever possible, and often make changes at the drawing level ... especially hole positions and tolerances. For me, this option is a definite benefit.

                               

                              I can understand that in a multi-user environment it could be disastous.

                              • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                Ajay Dhiman

                                In Simple Drawing Yes! and in large one should prefer to open model.

                                So there is no hard and fast rule to use this what its depends on your requirement

                                so if you have a option there in software why to loose it use it when required .

                                • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                  John Layne

                                  For the last 10 years I'd always say do it in the model. Somewhat Ironically I'm just about to set up some simple pipe bend drawings and wish to drive the model from the drawing but can't find the button in SolidWorks to allow this.

                                   

                                  I seem to remember in older versions of SolidWorks it used to ask you wether to allow drawing edits to update the model during the install process.

                                   

                                  Anyone out there know where the button is?

                                  • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                    Deepak Gupta

                                    If it is a simple dimension change, I may not bother to open the part or assembly but edit it from the drawing itself. But for any major or many changes, I would prefer to change it via part or assembly only which will give me better understanding and control if the change fails.

                                    • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                      Dave Lelonek
                                      I suspect there are two issues here or schools of thought:
                                      Changing the model within the drawing could:
                                      1) Cause issues with the integrity of the model.
                                      2) Cause issues with the design intent since you are not looking at the assembly.
                                      Now many folks many not use assemblies, they may just deal with single models so in that case number 2 would not apply. I always design or make changes within the assembly to assure that I don't get undesired results. As an example, some of our customers will design without actually inserting fasteners. This is an accident waiting to happen since you can bet that a bolt head sticking up will be overlooked resulting in interference.
                                      But, I fully support the option for users to decide what works best for them.
                                      • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                        Tom Strohscher

                                        We have two groups of engineers.  Machine design guys would rarly edit models from a drawing dimension.  Part complexity, unexpected rebuilds, and mate errors in assemblies would be bigger problems to chase down.  In my opinion creating a drawing with model dimensions is also more time consuming and prone to error then placing them on manually.

                                         

                                        Our mold design group edits many of their parts from drawings.  The parts alone are not to complex.  But in a way there is a level of complexity because several parts are related to one another.  This however all starts from some vary complex templates which include detail drawing, assembly drawings, and models.  They do a pack and go when they start a new project so their templates keep the correct references.

                                         

                                        It's a great feature even though I do not have a use for it in most of my work.

                                        • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                          Joel Bickel

                                          I like the idea of the drawing being reference only and not driving the design.  But at the same time I can understand that it would be very usefull.  I think making it an installation options is a good idea.

                                          • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                            Christopher Thompson

                                            I have typically modified the models from the drawing, with the possible except of molded parts (complex geometry) since I started with Pro/Engineer, and I carried this over to SolidWorks as well. Since taking a SW Drawing class which covered DimXpert (3-D Annotations), I am rethinking this process (see here).

                                             

                                            Has DimXpert changed anyone's mind on using model items in the drawings, or can both be used with minimal driving dimensions (model items) to modify the size of a part from the drawing? Should the model items be placed on another layer in the drawing, and what is the best practice for working with both DimXpert and model items in the same drawing?

                                              • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                Matt Rohr

                                                I prefer Model Items I only wish the interface was a little better and they were a little easier to use. My thinking is that if you fully define the model and then Insert model items you know your drawing geometry is fully defined. I like the concept of DimXpert however I wish it somehow took advantage of driving dimensions and reference geometry.

                                                 

                                                Regardless of whether or not I edit the model from the drawing (I generally don't, though on occasion I will) I use Model items to dimension my parts 99% of the time.

                                                 



                                                • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                  Alessandro Frattini

                                                  Christopher Thompson ha scritto:

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Has DimXpert changed anyone's mind on using model items in the drawings, or can both be used with minimal driving dimensions (model items) to modify the size of a part from the drawing? Should the model items be placed on another layer in the drawing, and what is the best practice for working with both DimXpert and model items in the same drawing?

                                                  Sorry, but I don't understand why we have 3 dimension type.
                                                  1) Model Items
                                                  2) Driven dimension
                                                  3) DimXpert dimension

                                                   

                                                  SolidWorks need to make consistence between them.
                                                  It's ok for driven dimension, but model items and dimXpert, they need to be connected.
                                                  Using layer for me is a no sense.
                                                  Layer creates only complexity.
                                                  Leave layer to AutoCAD users.

                                                   

                                                  For me, DimXpert need to be taken from model items.
                                                  In NX you can 'convert' (actually it's more like a 'clone') Sketch dimensions into PMI objects and in that case, any 'Style' changes applied to the Sketch Dimension, such as tolerances, will be properly moved from the Sketch to the PMI Dimension.

                                                   

                                                  And if that wasn't cool enough, once you leave the Sketch task and you see that 'PMI Dimension' in your model, if you double-click on that Dimension, you'll be able to edit it (and the model will update) as if it were still a Sketch dimension (which in reality it actually is).

                                                   

                                                  I add a enhanced request 3 years ago with this, before that NX has add this, but nothing.

                                                • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                  Melissa Appel

                                                  Thanks for your responses so far. There are definitely reasons for both sides, and I want to clarify that we're not planning on removing the ability.

                                                   

                                                  I have a few follow up questions: does the ease or difficulty of inserting the model items in the first place affect how you feel about editing the model from the drawing? For example, maybe some of you don't edit the model from the drawing because it's difficult to insert the model items?

                                                   

                                                  Or maybe you don't use model items because your design dimensions are different than your manufacturing dimensions and it doesn't make sense to pull in the model dimensions?

                                                    • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                      Scott McFadden

                                                      I prefer to insert model items and this has no bearing on whether I edit dimensions

                                                      from the drawing.  I still prefer to edit them in the model.

                                                      Maybe if there was way for the model to automatically regenerate and update from the drawing

                                                      or give users a more distint and clear difference between dimensions that were added through insert model

                                                      items and those that were just added (like a very different color) it might allow for more drawing to model updates

                                                      or changes.

                                                      Just my 2 cents worth.

                                                      • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                        Alessandro Frattini

                                                        Melissa Appel ha scritto:

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Or maybe you don't use model items because your design dimensions are different than your manufacturing dimensions and it doesn't make sense to pull in the model dimensions?

                                                        Yes, inserting model items can be improved.

                                                        How much is different design dimensions from manufacturing dimensions ?

                                                        1 % or 5 % ?

                                                        If manufacturing dimensions is different from design dimensions, I go in the model, I add driven dimension and I import this driven dimension.

                                                        It's also true that there are designer that model and dimension the 3D model with the foot, but this it's different problem.

                                                        • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                          Paul Marsman

                                                          First, we insert model items because it's faster and we then have the advantage of being able to change dimensions in the drawing with this method.  Our parts are "simple enough" in most cases that making changes to dimension values is no problem and done that way most of the time.  The problems with this is when you have configurations and you can't change the dimension on the drawing because it is somehow specific to a different configuration than the one you are looking at and then you have to open the model to be able to change the dimension.

                                                           

                                                          As for the design/manufacture dimensions issue, we unmark dimensions for the drawing so they don't come in and make driven dimensions in the model that we do want for the drawing.  Works extremely well for us.

                                                          • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                            Mark Larson

                                                            you need a draftsman on your software development team

                                                            I get the feeling nobody at SW has ever been one

                                                            if you do have one, for gawds sake start listening to 'em

                                                            engineers know squat about drawings

                                                             

                                                            a drawing is a specification, the part (or assy) must conform to it to be accepted, ie, an inspection drawing

                                                             

                                                            the dimensions that define the model are not necessarily the dimensions that specify the part (the dimensions the part is inspected to)

                                                             

                                                            nor do the dimensions that define the model tell someone how to manufacture it, so as a tool to create fab (mfg) drawings, it is even less an atuomatic process to create drawings

                                                             

                                                            if you can create a drawing by inserting model items, that's great, but seldom do I find that will get the job done, I simply insert the views I need, then go about dimensioning it one dimension at a time, inserting model items places too many dimensions I don't want or need, faster, and better in the end to do them one at a time IMO

                                                             

                                                            agree with Randy below, there is no right or wrong answer, although generally from the model

                                                            • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                              Dale Dunn

                                                              For my work, model dimensions are rarely useful for manufacturing. I make far too much use of in-context relations for this to make sense. If I designed stand-alone parts, I'd be tryingto import many more dimensions.

                                                               

                                                              In those times that I have tried to import, it has not been a smooth process. I mainly only kept dimensions that were toleranced in the model.

                                                            • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                              Jeff Wierengo

                                                              We do not insert model dimensions into drawings to prevent us from changing the model at that level. We prefer to use only reference dimensions in drawings. Partly because the model dimensions do not always reflect the manufacturing dimensions required but primarily because of the potential impact the changes may have to mates at the assembly level. Some dimensions are also derived from equations. We try to always have the assembly open when making changes to parts so we can catch mate errors and unintended impact at the assembly level before they become difficult to repair. Most dimensional changes to drawings are done just by opening them and saving.

                                                              • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                Ralph Osburn

                                                                There is no wrong answer here. I use every tool in my designs.

                                                                • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                  Michael Farmer

                                                                  I am against that as a principle. To modify the model via the drawing is fraught with dangers and best avoided in my opinion.

                                                                  • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                    Mike Young

                                                                    I never change the model from the drawing but only because I never insert model dimensions from a drawing. Inserting the dimensions and the arranging them afterwards seams very slow to me. If inserting / arranging was quick I would make some changes in the drawing (because swapping from drawing to model takes time). I expect I would only make simple changes. I think I am with the majority, simple changes made from the drawing is a good idea and can save time. Complex changes / a series of changes or changing a model you are unfamiliar with need to be made in the model.

                                                                      • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                        Michael Farmer

                                                                        One factor that may have a big bearing on preference may well be if the model includes multiple configurations. I more often than not have between 3 and 12 configurations of parts and assemblies each with individual drawings from the core model. Quite often these additional configurations were not planned at design brief stage, usually being added via customer requests. This means that the original models dimensioning did not account for the possibility of future configurations. I know from experience that this complicates matters.

                                                                      • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                        Mark Federspiel

                                                                        At times this is the best way to design! With relationships set to properly limit features; I can set views in my drawings to see certain things. Then I can play “what if” with the design. Move a feature and see what happens in other places. Sometimes this allows me to put in dimensions between other features or parts that I cannot easily see in the solid model. I can then move one feature and hit a target without having to make a relationship that might create an unknown consequence.

                                                                        • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                          Shawn Grigsby

                                                                          No, no and NO!  Just my 2 cents from my early experience.

                                                                          • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                            ingo schueler

                                                                            Never change a model without controlling the changes in 3D!

                                                                            Against.

                                                                            • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                              Dale Dunn

                                                                              I think the question should be asking when should changes be made from the drawing, not if they should be.

                                                                               

                                                                              I once had a design that recurred quite often, with only minor changes. I intentionally set it up so that a few relevant dimensions could be changed from the drawing, resulting in a complete new design. I would even trust my boss to use it, if he could use Pack n' Go.

                                                                               

                                                                              Usually, the model dimensions I need to change aren't available in the drawing anyway.

                                                                               

                                                                              The bottom line is, either way, you need to understand the design and the impact of the dimensional changes being made. After that, it doesn't matter if you make the change in the model or in the drawing. Do whichever makes the most sense. Making rules about where to edit is ... just making up rules.

                                                                              • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                                Nigel Bennett

                                                                                Sorry for the tardy response to this post.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Yes, you should be able to modify the model from the drawing. If SW didn't have that feature, we wouldn't be using it.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I've always imported model dimensions into drawings for that purpose.

                                                                                 

                                                                                It's often not apparent from changing dimensions at model level how later features have been dimensioned. If you've imported the driving dimensions, you can look at the drawing, and see which other dimensions need to be modified to keep your design-change intent. It's not always apparent, if making small changes when editing the model, what changes have been made to later features.

                                                                                 

                                                                                A co-worker's drawing showing all the driven dimensions will illustrate exactly how the model has been dimensioned, and enable you to make an informed decision on how to alter it to keep design intent.

                                                                                 

                                                                                If I have to use driven dimensions (other than reference dims) in a drawing, I consider it unacceptably sloppy model creation, and so I will always go back to it to redimension it to drive it how it needs to be driven.

                                                                                • Re: Should you edit the model from the drawing?
                                                                                  Alex Taguchi

                                                                                  The button was removed back in 2006 or 2007. However you can still enable it in 2014 by editing the registry. I can confirm it still works, and gives you an error when trying to modify model items and does not allow edits.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The reason why editing the current user registry for this does not work is because of the change they made, so it ignores the current user key and overwrites it with the local machine key which by defualt is set to 0.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  This is from the SOLIDWORKS knowledge base solution S-018062:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  In the system registry go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\SolidWorks\SolidWorks 200x\General\Disable model changes from drawings and change the value from 0 to 1.  This will prevent dimensional changes in drawings.