6 Replies Latest reply on Jul 15, 2012 11:53 PM by Asher Brolsma

    Improper third node at BEAM element #

    Samantha Stone

      I am attempting a simulation on a chassis using pin joints to simulate slip joints and when I run the simulation I get an error that reads "Improper third node at BEAM element 128457". The number location is always different. Can anyone give me a tip on what this even means and how to solve it?




        • Re: Improper third node at BEAM element #
          Joe Rochinski

          I am receiving this error as well. The odd thing about it is the error message references a BEAM element, however in my case the entire model is composed of shell elements. Perhaps the remote loads I'm applying are transferred using beam elements? What is really frustrating is that I can't figure out where the failing node is located in the model. Simulation lets you probe and it will tell you what node you picked, but as far as I can tell you can't specify a node number and have it show you the location.


          At any rate, this is the first simulation I've set up since upgrading to SW2011. I've set up other studies in a similar fashion in 2010 and never saw this problem. I've tried different element sizes, selecting the other solver, and modifying the location of my remote loads to no avail.


          The only thing I'm doing differently here is making use of the new offset setting in Shell Definition, as my model is comprised of thin-wall structural tubes and the surfaces are derived from the outer surface of those tubes, not the mid-plane.


          In my case, the element number remains the same unless I remesh.


          The solver status window behaves as follows:

          Forming surface to surface bonding seems to complete successfully

          Establishing Element Connectivity is where the error occurs.


          I'm going to remove the offsets in shell definition and see if it helps. I'll let you know how it goes.

          • Re: Improper third node at BEAM element #
            Ryan Werner

            Hi Samantha,


            I have not come across this error before but I am not yet running 2011.  If you want you can upload your model and I can take a look.


            Ryan W.

            • Re: Improper third node at BEAM element #
              James Chester

              I also had this error.  I was creating small cylinders to represent bolts and representing them as 2d beam elements (same as I use to perform in Algor) and I would extract the beam forces in axial and shear to calculate the FOS using the elliptical interaction equations.  The problem is the length of the beam is not at least the same as the diameter this error pops up.  When I reduced the diameter of the bolt cylinder I was able to run the simulation without the error.

              • Re: Improper third node at BEAM element #
                Asher Brolsma

                I had the same error - after reading this thread I took note of Joe's comments and removed the bolted connections in my model (I added some bonded connections to make up for the missing bolts) the model ran fine, suggesting that the problems are occuring within the bolted connection. My scenario had a solid body sandwiched between two surface bodies that were bolted together.


                Fine for me as we can just run calcs for the bolts at that point - it was other points in the frame were were really interested in. Not sure where this leaves other peoples studies though.