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Age old question re: Computer Built for SW...

Question asked by Cihan Ozdemir on Dec 28, 2010

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2 years ago I contacted our VAR regarding a SW seat, didn't really think we would use it much but was sold on the all the possibilities with Driveworx express, FEA, etc.. Well, we got it for the $8k tag, but the machine is slow. Can this machine be upgraded to be efficient or do i need a machine to be speced out?

Current system:

Dell Vostro 200

Core 2 Duo E4500 2.2GHz

3GB Ram

WinXP Pro

Nvidia GeForce 8600GT (which i upgraded to an FX 1800 - but saw no performance enhancement whatsoever so i returned it to amazon),

Thanks for your help!

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Charles Culp Dec 28, 2010 12:58 PM
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Wow, that is a very powerful processor setup for SolidWorks. It has two processors, each of which is 4 cores. This will add $1,500 to the price of the computer. Consider sticking with a single Xeon W3670 or W3680. This will have 6 cores. Most SolidWorks functions only work with one core, so the dual-processer setup is only good if you do extensive FEA or rendering.

Here is my opinion of a good machine: https://forum.solidworks.com/message/175659

It is dated August, but most still holds true today, and probably will for a while. Intel's next set of chips are going to be value chips, not high end performance.
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- Cihan Ozdemir @ Charles Culp on Dec 28, 2010 2:43 PM
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  Thanks Charles. I am going to go this route of building my own. I need to make sure though that this setup is also conducive for Sketchup. Will do my research now. Thanks for the link to your build.
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- Cihan Ozdemir @ Charles Culp on Dec 29, 2010 1:01 PM
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  Charles-
  
  I bit the bullet and purchased everything on that list with a few exceptions. i got a corsair power supply because i have read in many places the importance of a dependable power supply. i did get the gigabyte mobo, even though the recent december reviews show MANY DOA and nightmare situations with the RMA. But, as one of the posters noted, it might be a bad batch and hopefully when i get mine the troubles will be gone. I also got the firepro V5800 and not the 4800 because of the 800 stream processors vs the 400 stream processors on the V4800 (not sure how this will help but i can't imagine it will hurt). I only got 6gb ram which does concern me a bit, but i can always upgrade. By the way, how do you know which ram to get? I mean, they have so many configurations 3 at 2gb, 2 at 3gb, etc. etc. and then the different speeds. So confusing.
  
  I did not get a heat sink and was wondering if i needed it. I don't know where it goes either - on the ram or the cpu or both?
  
  My next question here is about the OS. I have SW2009 and i know that it won't run on Windows 7. But, will it run on Windows 7 with XP mode with the same performance? Or should i get 2 OS with the option at startup? I need to order that now and just wanted to know if i could get away with the xp mode in windows 7. Thanks.
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  - Mark Larson @ Cihan Ozdemir on Dec 30, 2010 11:04 AM
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    be aware that IF you get SW to run in XP mode the default is to divide RAM in 1/2 between W7 & XP mode, thus you will have 3Gb RAM available for SW
    the more RAM you dedicate to XP mode, the less you will have for W7
    
    you should also be aware that XP mode was originally intended so that software developers could test their code in a virtual machine so that if it crashed, no harm done, it wasn't meant for someone to be running applications, the significance of that? read the paragraph above again, also, guess what happens if W7 itself does a crash and burn? And getting licensing to work can be a nightmare. I haven't tried it with SW, but have with other CAD, it was a waste of time.
    
    If you get everything to work, be sure to let everybody here know how you did it.
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    - Cihan Ozdemir @ Mark Larson on Dec 30, 2010 11:56 AM
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      Mark-
      
      After going through Microsoft's website and looking at just what exactly is the Windows 7 with XP mode, it appears as though XP mode is just that - a mode. Basically windows 7 offers a virtual machine within the os that allows xp to be loaded as its own os within Win7. However, they have a caveat on their site that reads as follows:
      
      "Windows XP Mode was primarily designed to help businesses move from Windows XP to Windows 7. It isn't optimized for graphic-intensive programs such as 3D games, nor is it well suited for programs with hardware requirements such as TV tuners."
      
      So, I have been trying without success to find an OEM copy of Windows XP Pro 64Bit version. Cant find it anywhere. What to do, what to do. Any ideas?
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      - Tim Ring @ Cihan Ozdemir on Dec 30, 2010 12:12 PM
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        Once again If you buy an HP refurbished Workstation many still are shipping with XP pro on them.
        www.hp.com/go/refurbished
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      - Charles Culp @ Cihan Ozdemir on Dec 30, 2010 12:14 PM
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        They are hard to find. You can't get it from Newegg any more:
        
        http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Vista-Business-VERSION/dp/B000HCTYSA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293729082&sr=8-1
        
        MS Vista Business. $93.
        
        Stay away from XP x64. I have seen a plethora of problems from people using it. Vista x64 is much more reliable.
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  - Charles Culp @ Cihan Ozdemir on Dec 30, 2010 11:54 AM
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    As Mark mentioned, XP Mode is not good for SolidWorks.
    
    The processor mentioned uses triple buffered memory, so you would need 3 sticks, each of 2GB (or more!). However, 3 or 6 sticks is the important part.
    
    The video card will be helpful with large assemblies. Might be overkill, can't hurt.
    
    The motherboard is your own discression. The Gigabyte I suggested was a very common one when I created the list, and gigabyte is a good brand. If there were known problems then a similar ASUS might be the way to go. I don't follow motherboard brand qualities closely. I have an ASUS at home.
    
    I have blown through many power supplies myself, and now I only buy SPI (Sparkle) because I trust their reliability.
    
    You will either want to run Vista x64, or upgrade your SolidWorks for best performance.
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Anna Wood Dec 28, 2010 6:41 PM
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Cihan,

That system is way overkill for your needs. The Dell rep is looking to line his pockets with a good commission, not quote you a system for your needs.

SolidWorks is cpu bound so you want to get the best cpu you can afford. A dual socket system is not needed though

Get a Dell T3500

Xeon W3530 or better cpu. A quad core in the 2.8 Ghz or more range will be fine. Pick the best cpu you can afford.

The Windows 7 x64 with 6 gigs of RAM

Nvidia Quadro 2000 video card. That is a newer version the FX 1800.

Then hard drives. I like the 10K rpm SATA drives. Those are Western Digital Velociraptors, nice fast hard drives.

Be sure to negotiate a good price with Dell. We just bought 4 workstations and negotiated a good quote that was a $1000 off the website price of $4700 for each system. (just the box, monitors were seperate). Paid about $3700 for each system. The spec's for our new systems are in my profile. Our new Dell systems will blow the systems the Dell rep quoted out of the water for speed and for way less money.

Cheers,

Anna
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- Harold Brunt @ Anna Wood on Dec 29, 2010 1:41 PM
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  Anna,
  
  I'm sure you have plenty of things to do but I'm looking forward to seeing an update of the benchmark spreadsheet. I've noticed a lot of people are upgrading workstations lately as well as installing SW2011 so I would anticipate that there will be more postings in the 50's and under for the punch holder. Thanks for keeping up that data base by the way. There's a lot of great information there.
  
  Harold
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  - Anna Wood @ Harold Brunt on Dec 29, 2010 8:32 PM
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    Harold,
    
    I will try to get to it this weekend. I have been up to my eyeballs in SW2011 rollout. It is a big one this year with lots of video card and ram upgrades, new computers for engineering as well as the software upgrades. Oh and we are getting new servers with Windows Server OS software updates with a change in domains that I am waiting on our IT people completing so we can use our shiny new Windows 7 machines. Fun times the last week or so. It never goes as smooth as you would hope.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Anna
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    - Harold Brunt @ Anna Wood on Dec 29, 2010 10:28 PM
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      "It never goes as smooth as you would hope." This is my mantra this time of year....
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Tony Greising-Murschel Dec 29, 2010 8:21 AM
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Look at dropping in RAID0 SSD drives. I can't tell you how much they help performance!!
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Tim Ring Dec 30, 2010 10:20 AM
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If you are looking for the best deal on a SW machines I feel that HP's refurbished workstations are the way to go. Fast, Cheaper, Certified, and great support. I have bought 5 over the last 2 years and have been thrilled with them all.
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Mark Waclawik Jan 11, 2011 12:57 AM
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I have bought a few Dell T3500 workstations to replace our HP fleet and found this combo worked out to the be best bang for the buck.

Dell T3500
Xeon W3565 3.2Ghz
6GB RAM
256Gb SSD
768Mb Quadro FX1800

We mainly use Solidworks and Autocad, minimal photorendering etc and tried a few combinations before settling on this.
I tried 2x 160Gb Velociraptors in RAID0 instead of the SSD and found a noticable difference, for the extra $150 the SSD is well worth it.
I also tried 12GB ram instead of 6 and found the extra ram made minimal performance benefit for day to day modelling, if you work with huge models all the time then the benefit was you can load multiple assemblies without slowing down the system.
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