27 Replies Latest reply on Jan 19, 2011 3:30 PM by Jerry Steiger

    Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE

    Riccardo Mattioli

      Hi everyone,

       

      This is the regression, the bug I tried to underline several times: in drawings, you can change sheet metal flat pattern bendline type NO MORE.

       

      You could do that till SW 2010, now you cannot.

       

      I updated to SP1.0, I get exactly the same problem. AND NOW MY DRAWING ARE GONE, AND THE MANUFACTURING GUYS ARE GETTING NERVOUS.

       

      I sent the request through my VAR, but SolidWorks still ignores my voice, as always. Now I feel we're going backwards, and though I own several licenses of SolidWorks, I'm going to look outside, PTC maybe will be a partner I can talk to.

       

      Regards

       

      Riccardo Mattioli

        • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
          John Picinich

          Riccardo,

           

          I have confirmed that the line font can't be changed, but the width can.  You must perform a CTRL-Q rebuild to see the width change

           

          Is there a specific reason you need to change the line font?  As a workaround, you could either save the drawing as DXF, and edit the line format, or use convert entities in the drawng view to create copies of the bend lines, then hide the SolidWorks bend lines and change the line font, layer, color etc. of the converted lines.  Unfortunately the bend notes will be removed when you hide the bend lines, so this is not a 100% solution.

           

          Has your VAR submitted this regression to SolidWorks?

           

          - John

            • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
              Riccardo Mattioli

              John,

               

              thank you for your answer. Yes, my VAR has submitted this regression, or they told me so. I'm feeling bad both with SWx itself and with their tech support service, I don't know what to think.

               

              As for this simple feature: line font... Well, we work with sheet plates, there are tons of third-party suppliers that work with sheet plate here in Northern Italy. Every supplier here knows that:

               

              Dotted bendline = downwards bend

              Continuous bendline = upwards bend

               

              I simply cannot use long workarounds because TIME IS THE PROBLEM. Maybe we should use bendnotes, I know, but I can assure you everyone here works like that and it's a symbology we use from schools onwards.

               

              I used to love SolidWorks, I built my business on it, I spent years of my time working on it, we spent thousand of Euros investing on it and in 3Dvia. But now I feel it's not following my growth. I know the bendline font is a silly problem, but since is a silly problem, I KNOW THEY COULD FIX IT IN NO TIME. But they don't seem to care about our silly problems growing over time, and getting worse.

               

              Seriously, next year we're planning to buy more SolidWorks licenses, and we're planning to adopt PDM Enterprise. But I must tell I'm not convinced anymore, I think I will brake on it.

               

              And yes, the PTC guys won't listen to me either, but they seem more on the ball here than the SWx guys are.

               

              Riccardo Mattioli

            • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
              Jerry Steiger

              Riccardo,

               

              SW isn't really good at fixing bugs, although it seems like they may be getting a bit better, but I wouldn't expect the folks at PTC to listen any better. My experience has been that PTC only listens to big customers. If what PTC offers works better for you, then go for it, but don't expect PTC to change anything to make you happy.

               

               

              Jerry Steiger

                • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                  Riccardo Mattioli

                  Jerry,

                   

                  I won't make the switch so easily. I based my growth on SolidWorks, and I had trust in it.

                  But it's not following me anymore, and I don't know if I can stand with this situation.

                   

                  The PTC guys won't listen to me, I know. But the SWx guys don't listen to me, too - after all these years of collaboration.

                   

                  Here in Italy, I feel they're always asking, instead of giving us a service.

                   

                  Riccardo Mattioli

                    • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                      John Picinich

                      Riccardo,

                       

                      1.) Do you have the specific SPR# that was submitted for this issue?

                      2.) Have you requested that priority of this issue be escalated?

                      3.) Have you spoken to your regional SolidWorks sale and technical managers about this issue?

                      4.) Is using SolidWorks 2010 an option until this issue is fixed in 2011?

                       

                      - John

                        • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                          Riccardo Mattioli

                          John,

                           

                          thank you for your answer.

                           

                          1.) SR #: 1-1868915782 (only the last of many SRs, each one ignored and closed through the years)

                           

                          2.) No, I didn't. How can I do that? And what is that?

                           

                          3.) Yes, I did it SEVERAL times. They only notice this bug is real, and they keep telling me SolidWorks won't change it because I'm a really small minority.

                           

                          4.) Unfortunately, no. I had SWx 2011 SP1.0 installed on some machines, and we had some models saved in 2011 format. And now all those drawings are gone - bugged.

                          Obviously we discovered this bug only after some days of seamless usage, and the damage was already done.

                          If only I could switch back to 2010 file format, I'd surely go back to SWx 2010. But I cannot, and I don't feel it can be a good solution, since I made a three-years renewal of all licenses just 5 months ago, just to take the advantage of the newest features.

                           

                          Regards

                           

                          Riccardo Mattioli

                            • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                              John Picinich

                              Riccardo,

                               

                              1.) The SR# is your problem report.  The SPR# is the tracking number used by SolidWorks for a confirmed issue.

                              2.) Your VAR can request that SolidWorks escalate the level of priority for this SPR.

                              3.) From my experience, SolidWorks will develop a fix, even if it only impacts a small number of customers (even one).

                              4.) I only suggest going back to 2010 as a short term solution.  Once the problem is resolved, go back to 2011.

                               

                              Please get the SPR# from your VAR and post it here.

                               

                              - John

                                • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                                  Riccardo Mattioli

                                  John,

                                   

                                  thank you again for your answer.

                                   

                                  I'll ask for that and post it for sure (though I'm losing confidence in our local tech support too...).

                                   

                                  Regards

                                   

                                  Riccardo

                                    • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                                      Riccardo Mattioli

                                      John,

                                       

                                      today I received some good news from SolidWorks:

                                       

                                      "Dear Riccardo Mattioli,

                                      Thank you for contacting SolidWorks Technical Support.

                                      I have confirmed this problem and this has been submitted as a Problem Report to the SolidWorks Development team. The reference number for this issue is SPR585454-“Unable to change the line type in Flat-Pattern view of sheet metal file. You will be notified when this issue has been resolved. ”

                                      As a temporary solution,just like John mentioned, you could either save the drawing as DXF, and edit the line format, or use convert entities in the drawng view to create copies of the bend lines, then hide the SolidWorks bend lines and change the line font, layer, color etc. of the converted lines.

                                      Please let me know if you need any help about this topic.

                                       

                                      Regards,

                                      Chars Chen

                                      SolidWorks Technical Support"

                                       

                                       

                                      After this answer, I admit I should change my mind about SolidWorks tech. support. After all, the problem is still there and it will be there until a fix comes out, but now I know someone is there to listen, and someone is taking my problems into account.

                                       

                                      This is exactly what I'm looking for: not only breakthrough software features but also a certain degree of collaboration and service.

                                       

                                      Thank you again and regards

                                       

                                      Riccardo

                          • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                            Jesus Vargas

                            I work in a sheet metal shop. and I didnt know you could do that with the lines on the drawings, but we dont really need to have a flat pattern drawing to show what direction the bend line goes as long as I provide a 3 view drawing that's all my guys  need.

                            but you are right as far as the doted line that means bend goes down solid line bend goes up.

                            • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                              Jesus Vargas

                              Sometimes people dont understand the importance of this little things in this case the bending lines Like I said bebore I dont provide the flat pattern to the guys on the floor.But for those that want to supply a flat lay out if you are 100 % sure that thats the correct size ( if you have dimensions on ) then its ok but if you are not sure I dont think you should be given that to the guys on the floor. you have to make sure you are using the right K factor other wise its going to create confusion.

                                • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                                  Riccardo Mattioli

                                  Jesus,

                                   

                                  I definitely agree with you.

                                   

                                  In reality, K factor depends on sheet plate material and gauge, yes, but it also heavily depends on the laminating process of the plate itself (not only varies from one sheet plate supplier to another, but also through different plates in the same supplier's provision) and from the tools installed on the bending machine.

                                   

                                  This last point is quite interesting: we never use THEORETICAL knives and pits on our bending machines. In theory, you should mount a pit that is 8 times the gauge of the plate: actually, we use the same pit for different plate gauges, of course in order to save time.

                                   

                                  We calculated our practical K factor based on our experience and processes, and we put it down in SolidWorks Gauge tables: it comes in handy because you have all the different gauges in a combo box, we fixed the K and varied bend radius to approximate the result. It works.

                                   

                                  And what you say is right: different third-party manufacturers will use different flat pattern dimensions to build the same part. So it's quite risky to send drawings with flat pattern to third-party suppliers... especially if they are low-profile, low-quality, cheap suppliers.

                                   

                                  Regard

                                   

                                  Riccardo

                                    • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                                      Jesus Vargas

                                      Ricardo,

                                       

                                      when you said "PIT" you mean the bottom die? if so  do you make presicion sheet metal? or what is you tolerances for this plates? because if you use a bigger pit that what you actually need  your plate either is going to be big and your angle is going to keep changing.

                                      Also let me share a secret with you at least it works for me most of the time.  (when you stay with a 1/32 bend radius)  if you change your k factor in solidworks to .398 your flat pattern is going to be very close.unless that part has  offsets or hems  the flat some times they come out either bigger or smaller but somewhere arround the tolerance.so in other words let say that some one design a part with a 1/16 radius if you change the to 1/32 and put .398 as k factor it will be very close. (but you you will form the part with 1/16 radius ) and offcourse you need to know what's the k= factor of 1/16 in real life to double check the flat lay out. I hope i didn confuse you .

                                        • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                                          Riccardo Mattioli

                                          Jesus,

                                           

                                          yes, when I say"pit" Imean "bottom die", sorry for that.

                                           

                                          We usually cut and bend steel and stainless steel sheet plates from 8/10 (0,8 mm in Europe) to 100/10 (10 mm) thick.

                                          We don't make precision sheet metal, we try to design components with bigger tolerances allowed. I.e., for a 3 mm thick, 3 m long sheet with 4 90° bends, we allow a +/- 1 mm tolerance on the main face.

                                           

                                          I never tried what you say but it sounds smart, I'll try that for sure - thank you!

                                           

                                          I'm adding something, though. We use SWX Gauge Tables just because it comes really handy for the designer: when he puts down a sheet plate part, a COMBO BOX will pop up and show him all the feasible gauges (8/10, 10/10, 12/10, ...) - he selects the right gauge, and that's all.

                                           

                                          It seems great but, for the reasons I explained before, we need the K-factor to vary with the gauge. And Gauge Tables won't let you do that. Our workaround is fixing the K and varying the bend radius, which generates unreal 3D parts.

                                           

                                          Regards

                                           

                                          Riccardo

                                    • Re: Sheet metal flat pattern drawing: THE SAME BUG GETTING WORSE
                                      Riccardo Mattioli

                                      OK guys, I eagerly awaited for the SP2 coming out for fixing this bad bug and now... All remained the same!!!

                                       

                                      The SR was 1-1868915782, the SPR was SPR585454-“Unable to change the line type in Flat-Pattern view of sheet metal file.".

                                       

                                      No fix, it's several months now: are they interested in customers requests?

                                       

                                      It's frustrating, I definitely lost my hopes.

                                       

                                      Riccardo