Is that what SW designers are going for on the coast?
With 3-7 years experience, yes. Contract positions for more experienced users can be as high $40 an hour but we dont need that level of experience. Would you pay someone right out of college with no engineering experience and 3 Solidworks classes in school more than $20 an hour? Well, I guess that's here nor there, this is the range we can pay.
We are looking for a full time employee at that salary but need to go through an agency or 10-99 until we find the right person. As stated, a consultant (and thus a higher rate) might be condsidered under specific terms.
Do you have better rates elsewhere? Maybe I need to move and get paid more....what do senior level designers / design engineers with 12+ years get paid where you are?
We have raised the salary to $30-40 / hr for 2 month contract with possible extension or full time direct offer based on performance. Overtime is available.
Joe I find your job posting interesting.
What I mean is, are you looking for a designer or a CAD guru?
I have been in the business for 20 years and CAD has always been nothing more than a tool for me as an engineer / owner. In many cases I think people mistake CAD as a tool where they really need a designer or engineer.
I don't know your needs but they appear unclear. Any good engineer can learn SolidWorks way faster and easer than a CAD operator can learn to be an engineer.
I think the world has somewhat lost the fact that software, as awesome and powerful as it is, is still just a tool - a good tool, but just a tool. Garbage in = garbage out.
So, in LA, a CAD operator for 55K sounds good but a designer / engineer it sounds low.
I hope it works out for you.
Perhaps its a terminology issue. Thank you for your feedback. In my experience a designer is a more experienced CAD person that is able to do so some design work but is not a mechanical engineer. I thought my post was clear based on years of experience and title and that I did not say "engineer" or ask for a degree.
Again, in my experience only, a Solidworks designer (CAD operator, make models, assemblies, use the software but be directed by engineers or senior staff) with 3-7 years experience is worth between $45-60K/year. This is just a starting point. That designer may have more talent that can be leveraged at time of direct hire.
I have to be honest though, I dont make much more than that as a "Senior Designer" with nearly 15 years design engineering experience in multiple disciplines (no degree) with various CAD packages both as an Admin and User and even have VAR/Training experience (GoEngineer Applications Engineer) at the advanced level. I have what I consider to be advanced Solidworks skills in addition to many others, configuration management, CAD system admin., project management, global procurement/sourcing expeience, etc.
If you think I (or a designer with my experience) am worth more than $40/hr ( I do!!), please tell me where those jobs are because Senior designers just don't make much more than that EVER without a degree. Also consider the economy lately (-1 year and further back), 10-20 times as many designers were looking for work fattens the selection for employers - supply and demand theory. Thats changing a bit but seriously, where is a job that pays more than $80K/yr for a senior designer with many other talents?
All that being said, I appreciate the feedback. But please note in my last post, we raised the rate from $45-60K to $60-80K yearly. Thats a lot of dough for someone that just needs to know Solidworks cold. I am not asking for Simulation, Surfacing, sheet metal, routing, flow, etc. Just models, assemblies and drawings and be proficient with Solidworks design table functionality.
I am reading through this posting and I wish I could make that much!!! The most I have made in this
profession is $52K /yr. That was the job I was let go of last year after severe down sizing by the company.
I now find myself unemployed again as of the end of next week after making not even $45K /yr having
31 years in the mechanical design industry. Being a CSWP and very proficient in Solidworks and having some
experience in Pro-E. I find myself having to search for a job again. I personally if it wasn't for the fact of having to packup
my family and move all the way across the country would abbly for your position.
You might consider offering a per diem split as well for the out of area contractors.
I'm between jobs here in the midwest, many years of SDRC I-DEAS, way out of date AutoCAD, some Catia V5 and some Pro-E training, and I'm finding basically nothing unless the applicant is current and proficient on the company CAD system. No company seems willing to bring in competant people who are proficient on other CAD systems and allow them to get up to speed internally. Mechanical aptitude, efficient and accurate drafting/detailing knowledge, functional design skills, all seem to be secondary to whether or not an applicant can just use the company chosen CAD software. As such I'm trying to learn Solidworks at home. Just the way things seem to be right now. Pro-E fluency or Solidworks functionality and I could probably be employed next week.
In any case, stating if you are willing to work a per diem split for daily living expenses might get more inquiries. One contractor where I was at recently was getting something like 60/40 split, 60% taxed and 40% of his rate as a separate check with no taxes taken out (I might be off on the ratio). Check with a tax expert to be sure. And I'm not sure how California is about that and about residency requirements since I haven't lived there since the 1990's, I think they used to be at 6 months before requiring vehicle and residency registration. I've heard that Arizona (or maybe New Mexico) is at 2 weeks on the job and then they require residency.
Hope you have success finding the right candidate.
Oh well, time to fire up the student version and crack open the Dummies book and get learning.
Well, we just can't seem to find any good Solidworks users. I'm sorry to say that people out there are simply not good enough. We had to let our designer go because he just didn't get it. I liked the guy a lot but he just didn;t know enough about engineering and just wasn't coming up to speed.
It seems that people just don't know how to use design tables and don't really know much in general about Solidworks. Sure, they can build a box and make a drawing, but a configured assembly with hundreds of parts using a design table as well as proper modeling techniques and design intent....good luck.
I have to say that in the past 6 months I have been very discouraged by the level of skill of Solidworks users out there. I also have to say, we aren't paying peanuts. $70,000 a year is a decent salary for a designer. I search job postings just about daily and see the salaries and the ranges for different skill sets.
At this point I just don't know where we are going to find what we need. A designer with passion and knowledge.
So sick of the lies. If you don't know ANSI/ASME standards for drawings, how can you ask for $30 an hour as a drafter...just ridiculous! Sorry, this might seem out of place. I tried to get just a drafter to help with the work load and I am getting the same results.
Those who can do the job usually builds up their own business and those who does not will stick as employees, just basics.
Could it be that the people you are looking for have not been released in the recession and are not looking for a job?
Surely releasing skilled employees with corporate memory is as disasterous for the long term as your premises burning down?
Are you telling us that Student editions, Help, Tutorials and Training courses combined do not make skilled employees.
When I was a boy, draftsmen had often graduated from the tools, and brought their knowledge with them. Does that no longer happen?
Are you expecting too much of college grads? Have you looked at the content of college courses? Have you listened to the instructors?
Where do fresh grads learn their SW skills if not on the job?
Do you see it as someone else's responsibility to bring them up to speed?
Do you imagine that you should be able to iPhone for a skilled employee just as you iPhone for a pizza?
When I browse technical bookshops I see shelves full of guides to Autodesk products, but generally nothing for SolidWorks. What does this tell us?
Would you have had more luck if you had chosen a different brand of software for your business?
Hi Joseph I feel you're pain. I think your ad was quite clear. I wish I could help you. That sounds like a good price fortunately I'm currently re-employed but it was my years of experience that kept me out of the market for 5 months. But it was also my years of experience that got me back into the market as quickly as I did. It didn't feel that way but since that average unemployment length of time is well over 12 months I now feel lucky.
I agree with some of the comments made here. But I also agree with yours. But having worked for 21+ years in this field I started out on the board for a year and quickly moved to Autocad 2d not long after that finally landing into Solidworks. I never really started out as a simple draftsman. I was hurled into design but yes under the supervision of the engineers. So having that advantage (not to mention my years of prior experience reading blue prints in construction and shop jobs) I quickly learned shop practices, welding standards, etc.. you get the picture.
But for all those years in the design field my main intent at work was improving my design and drafting skills to more profeciently get my job done and down to the shop. With little or not time spent learning all the little background neausances of the design/drafting tools provided me (autocad lisp programs, solidworks API). That was usually left up to the engineers, document control, or IT. So I can us Solidworks really well for design or drafting purposes but to do API or full blown design tables would take a learning curve and possibly more training.
Don't get me wrong I can do design tables but I'm very rusty. Maybe you could open your acceptance for someone with the design/drafting experience but with the potential to improve into design tables and the like?
I too am at a small but a growing company and I'm now challenged with the responsibility of being the SolidWorks admin, trainer, and designer atop that. At my level of experience it's the next line in progression and a long time coming. But I too am requiring re-training and a learning curve. Good luck and stay positive. Once people see your ad they'll be beating down the doors. Thanks, Daniel
You might want to change the title of your posting, since you've increased the salary that you're offering. I read it the first time because I couldn't believe that you were expecting to find someone for $55K/Year and it still has the same title. It could be that the qualified people are ignoring your posting because of the salary mentioned in the title.
Best of luck in your search,
I appreciate all the responses. Definitely good feedback.
1. No, I'm not ordering a pizza. I have interviewed many many candidates both on the phone and in person with a Solidworks test. Many just don't meet the cut from both a designer/engineering standpoint as well as from a Solidworks user standpoint.
2. Yes, I hired two guys, making over $70K each and with the understanding they have to learn some stuff. They didn't know enough on either point, engineering or Solidworks. These are degreed guys, with 4 years experience minimum. They are not fresh out of school. But come on, we are a startup, we dont have time to train other than on internal procedures and product line. I didn't need to be trained to adapt my SWx knowledge to this product line and move forward.
3. I don't think I'm expecting too much. I am expecting people to be able to do what they say they can. I am seriously doubting the reputation of some these "institutions" if these are the people they are putting out into the workforce. They want big money and expect private offices but they have no foundation for engineering or Solidworks.
4. I doubt the choice of software is the problem. I know how to use it. Besides, choice of software was made before I came to this company and we have built our baseline design using Solidworks. Why would I switch? Why would I switch now when we are nearly set to deliver baseline design to manufacturer? Major setback to switch softwares....for any company, but even worse for a startup.
5. Driveworks? So buy another piece of software that even less people are familiar with? I don't think so. Design tables may be boring but they are part of the functionality and they work just fine. I'll look into it for the future but thats not an option right now.
6. I'm currently opening the position I now need filled a bit wider. It will range from drafter to designer and we'll see what comes up.
One thing I don't understand, is where are all these jobs that people keep telling me are worth more?
Learned something new today. How to change the first post. Edited the title.
All I can tell you is I know I could fit the qualifications you are looking for both in the engineering field
designing and detailing. For me to say I wish I could earn that much must sound like my experience
isn't worth that much. I am sure it has to do with where I live. Because here if I was to walk into
an interview and tell them I want what you are willing to pay....I would be shown the door and never called.
Sorry, I am just taken back by the amount your willing to pay. A little mind boggling.
I must be the economy is hight there and it all balances out.
It is all about cost of living. California is a much more expensive place to live then were you are at. So that salary seems a bit low to me from my perspective of what I make here in Arizona.
With that said, universities have not been training engineers to design and draw for years. Unless that 4-5 year out of college engineer got with a good company that actually does good training in design, drafting, drafting standards, etc. they will not get the skills. It has been that way for at least 20 years.
The state of design and drafting skills is pretty poor in this country these days.
Everyone wants a trained skilled engineer out of the box without investing anything into the person. They want everyone else to train them for them.
We have reaped what we have sown.
You are so right !!! I knew the cost of living is high in California. I have never been there (unless you count when I was 2).
I am sure I would be in culture shock if I was to see the pricing of things there.
I am greatful I came out in the pre-computer era. My drafting (on the board) skills taught me much about how to
design on the computer to which I am extremely greatful.
From my perspective? It would be awesome to get a home in the price range for the same quality as where I live
and get paid the kinda monety being offered in California. One can dream can't they?
When you say you think it is kind of low. I am going to say low in this area is about $35 - $45K.
Try chewing on that for a moment and maybe you will see where I am coming from.
I've been reviewing DriveWorksXpress and mostly it seems pretty straight forward. However, if the designer doesn't know or understand design tables, how are they going to learn this?
I do have a big concern though that it won't meet our needs. We don't make widgets. So we don't have thousands ov versions of something. We make equipment that often uses parts that can be configured. One big issue I have with DriveWorks is it appears its goign to make a separate file for every "configuration" of this part and be driven by a linked database.
Thats a problem for us because we want these parts to reside in the same part file as a config so when we need to do a quick change, such as change to different material config, its a simple right click and select from a drop down ion the properties tab.
Also, we use tabulated part drawings...not separate but similar indivual parts and individual drawings. For example, we have a flange that has an OD, ID, Bolt circle Dia., thru hole Dia., clocking angle and number of holes. All of those dimesnions are on a table on the face of the drawing.
It seems DriveWorks would have me creat a separate and distinct file for different flange...uh uh....thats a no no.
And lastly, it seems to save the files automatically....whats driving that? We have some pretty complicated assemblies that use3 different off the shelf components and therefore have different named configs with logic built in.
from the sound of it, it sounds like you want somebody just like yourself
the simple solution then, would be to offer how much you are making
I want someone that knows how to use Solidworks. If they have to learn some things fine, but at $60-70,000 a year, I shouldn't have to hold the hand of that person and show them where everything is. I have no problems giving guidance, but I do have a problem giving the answers all the time. At that point, I could just do it myself.
These users seem to not know about the tools we have at our disposal - help, solidworks forums, knowledge base, internet, youtube, endless locations for free information and help. Yet they constantly ask questions that are fundamental to design intent and the software as a whole. Forget about the lack of engineering knowledge.
I'm just discouraged. I have a great deal of passion and strive to learn as much as I can and these new guys coming out think they can slam down 5K for a bunch of training classes and they are now a solidworks expert. Sorry, that isn't how it works. As we all know, 4 weeks of Solidworks training isn't going to make you an expert. I get paid what I get paid because I know what I know. I suspect most of you are the same, you get paid for your expertise, not for what you could/should learn at your company.
By the way, not many jobs in So Cal pay more than this for a mid-level designer. Typically only aerospace surpasses $35/hr and aerospace is rough right now, it seems to be bouncing back slightly but still lots of guys out of work. And yes, those guys have turned $70,000. They would rather be unemployed than take a $10000 cut to get a job at a new company where growth is RAPID and the future is bright!!!
We now have an open position for someone that can do drafting and design work. pay range is ~$55-75K/yr DOE.
Those guys who are turning down 70,000 should realise when the money printing finally works its way though the system they might have to settle for a 30,000 or less lifestyle in relative terms, if they can find employment at all. Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to me. People would be silly to turn down employment for the sake of posturing over 10,000. Its going to get tougher than this. There might well be significant unemployed in the US for 10-15 years. Just my few unwelcome cents as an outside observer...
Joseph I feel you're pain. You're pretty funny, but you're right. I recall in the past in between jobs when I contracted I would come in and they would proceed to show me the on button and the like. I would just chuckle and explain to them I know my job.
But that was also frustrating because I find it hard to land a job and the companies usually picks up someone who knows not. I know because I'm in the local users groups and I go to the websites, knowlegde base, youtubes, and got some books too.
But don't fret believe me the price you have listed is more than enough. I think though the years of experience you have listed is a little low for what you're wanting. I think you can keep the same price but just ask for up to 10yrs exp.
As you said many users don't know what they have or know how to use what's available to them. (in the software)
Once again, good luck. Daniel
You probably don't need DriveWorks. You just need a designer who knows Design Tables. Good luck on your search, I'm somewhat surprised you haven't found someone. Send me message when you want to pay that kind of money in Missouri!
or send me a message for in Michigan
I agree, you just need someone that knows Design Tables. There are many of us here on the forums that fit your needs... just don't live in California and need a job.
I hope I don't seem like I'm comlpaining or anything. I'm just frustrated and working LONG hours to make up for these deficiencies. I do very much appreciate the feedback of everyone here and this is in fact the reason I posted here, to maybe help me in case its me that is making the mistakes or in case there is something I just don't know.
I thought you guys might be interested in the latest job description I released to our staffing firm......I also attached a drawing of a file that I gave the designer in the past to test them.....Make two Solidworks Parts and one assembly of them from the tabulated drawings. Link the values and build a design table in each part and assembly. What do you guys think? The test itself took 8 minutes to create. I give 30 minutes. So far I had one guy ACE the test. But to my dismay he ignored the commute discussion and quit after commuting for two days. Everyone else seems to get stuck at linking values and design intent. No idea how to set up a porperly constrained sketch.
Drafter/Senior Drafter/ Entry level Designer Job Description
N.E.I. Treatment Systems, LLC has a position available for a Drafter/Senior Drafter/Entry Level designer w/drafting skills in our Los Angeles, CA office. N.E.I. designs, makes, and sells marine ballast water treatment systems. We are a small, fast growing global company looking for an individual with a broad range of skills, and a desire to work on a variety of assignments in a fast paced environment. Direction will be given by a senior designer and management.
Responsibilities include system drafting using Solidworks 2010/2011, strong knowledge of ANSI drafting practices and standards, metric system units, as well as the ability to make minor changes in Solidworks Parts or Assemblies. Understanding of how to create tabulation tables on drawings using data from a Part/Assembly design table. Drawings should be clean and clearly readable so standards and drawing formats are very important. Ability to adapt to N.E.I. specific standards is required. We use very little GD&T so tolerancing a drawing is not much of a requirement however any understanding of GD&T, machining practices, sheet metal bending practices, welding practices would be an advantage. A general understanding of what’s required on engineering drawings for a manufacturing environment is required.
AutoCAD is not required for this position. However, we do use AutoCAD for our electrical schematics and P&ID diagrams. Therefore, AutoCAD experience in an electrical environment is a BIG plus and will be given extra consideration for employment.
Pay Range for this position is $25-$35 per hour depending on experience.
Position is contract to permanent based on performance.
Overtime may be possible.
I think that seems to be a fair description of what you're looking for, and I agree with the other comments that you should be fine working with the design table. I think your test is fair but the thirty minutes might be hard for someone such as myself who CAN use design tables but don't have much time spent using them. (though I didn't actually test myself on it) Like one of the other guys said, Call me when you want to pay that in Texas and I'll be at your door!
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