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Welded frame... use weldment feature or create an assembly (is one best for drawings?)

Question asked by Wil Stillens on May 7, 2010
Latest reply on Jun 1, 2010 by Wil Stillens

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Hi everybody

I am new to the forum and need help.

I make the weldment you see in the picture. (3' wide x 6' long). I am debating on whether or not to use a weldment to create this entire thing or make several weldment assemblies, or just continue to make it as an assembly. At the drawing level I can show individual parts that have detail, can you do this with a weldment? Wil I wind up spending so much time creating my 3d driver sketch I could have just made an assembly? Is a weldment more robust? please advise.

Kenneth Barrentine May 24, 2010 12:33 PM

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cutlists can be beastly if you really need them.

bear in mind that a lot of companies do not manufacture their own parts, instead they send out to vendors to fabricate. in this case a cutlist is irrelevant, in that, if the vendor is truly competent they can figure the cutlist out on their own.

however, if you are the manufacturer and fabricator then i understand your concerns about the cutlist.

if you did your weldment as a single part (all features in one file) in-context is available and does work with individual bodies.

parts inserted into parts do not play well with pdm.

configurations do not play well with pdm.

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Wil Stillens May 24, 2010 11:13 AM
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WOW... I just wanted to thank everybody for the overflow of support with my problem. . If anybody needs help with weldments I will be able to answer.
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- Kenneth Barrentine @ Wil Stillens on May 24, 2010 11:47 AM
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  this one somehow slipped under the radar.
  
  yes, you can have details of individual items in one drawing.
  use the "relative view" feature in a drawing
  
  you don't have to use a 3d sketch.
  a combination of 2d sketches will work just as well.
  you will most likely need to create additional (construction) planes.
  
  with weldments there are several hybrid options in addition to a single weldment part.
  
  in your example I would most likely create the parts individually and then insert them into a "part".
  that part in turn would be my weldment.
  
  this single weldment part is dynamic in that if a child part changes it will update in the weldment part.
  the child part files must be open in memory in order for the weldment part to update.
  
  it's just a little different from an assembly.
  
  the advantage is there are no assembly mates in the weldment.
  this will help upstream in the main assembly.
  mates are a big contributor to slow performance.
  
  the disadvantage is that you cannot get in-context features to transmit to the individual parts.
  
  in reality i could go either way with your example.
  model the items in a single weldment and then pattern them.
  
  hth
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  - Wil Stillens @ Kenneth Barrentine on May 24, 2010 12:11 PM
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    Hey, Thank you very much for your reply. I do understand your answer. I actually took this one all the way, online help, our provider Go Engineer, and lots of practice. I personally think that due to the complexity of the frame I am creating the best method would be an Assembly with in context references where I need them, i.e. the large hole that runs through the center of the weldment.
    Weldment cut lists are just not up to speed yet like a BOM list is as far as editing and still keeping linked. I know how to fill in the properties of the cut list within the part. I can also double click the part on screen and make the dimensions visible and enter them like an equation instead of manually typing them. Also, PDM Works only recognizes the default configuration, so if you make more than one, the revision will not bump. Or maybe it does and I have yet to discover it.
    
    Wil
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    - Kenneth Barrentine @ Wil Stillens on May 24, 2010 12:33 PM
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      cutlists can be beastly if you really need them.
      
      bear in mind that a lot of companies do not manufacture their own parts, instead they send out to vendors to fabricate. in this case a cutlist is irrelevant, in that, if the vendor is truly competent they can figure the cutlist out on their own.
      
      however, if you are the manufacturer and fabricator then i understand your concerns about the cutlist.
      
      if you did your weldment as a single part (all features in one file) in-context is available and does work with individual bodies.
      
      parts inserted into parts do not play well with pdm.
      configurations do not play well with pdm.
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      - Wil Stillens @ Kenneth Barrentine on May 24, 2010 12:53 PM
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        Kenneth Barrentine wrote:
        
        cutlists can be beastly if you really need them.
        
        bear in mind that a lot of companies do not manufacture their own parts, instead they send out to vendors to fabricate. in this case a cutlist is irrelevant, in that, if the vendor is truly competent they can figure the cutlist out on their own.
        
        however, if you are the manufacturer and fabricator then i understand your concerns about the cutlist.
        
        if you did your weldment as a single part (all features in one file) in-context is available and does work with individual bodies.
        
        parts inserted into parts do not play well with pdm.
        configurations do not play well with pdm.
        Very well said.
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Joe Dunfee May 28, 2010 5:49 PM
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You did exactly the right thing in taking the weldment through the entire process. Even with your picture, there are still a number of unknowns to us, such as what is likely to have to change in the future, how detailed you like your drawings, etc. There is no real way to know until you dig deep into the process. And even then, 6 months from now you will discover challenges to the method you choose, and perhaps regret the decision. Rest assured, there would have been problems if you had chosen the other approach.

You can't see the problems of any particular process up front. This is one of the more frustrating things of deailing with a complex program. It can take months to work thorough a paricular design process to determine the exact sequence of processes you should use, and which ones to avoid.

But, I will add that I have run into a lot of issues with weldments. There have been enough problems that I am not sure if I would ever use them for anything. But, my alternative is to do in-context assemblies... and that has problems with parts not updating. I am not sure if I should use them for anything. Of course, this puts me in a bit of a quandry!

Joe Dunfee
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- Wil Stillens @ Joe Dunfee on Jun 1, 2010 11:13 AM
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  Your are very right. It may go months, with several projects to realize I have choosen poorly. Thankyou very much for replying.
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Welded frame... use weldment feature or create an assembly (is one best for drawings?)

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