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Elbow Radius Not Updating upon Route Diameter Change

Question asked by 1-M4OM40 on Apr 23, 2010
Latest reply on May 4, 2010 by Peter De Vlieger

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Hi everyone!

Okay another problem

I made a simple assembly of elbows, pipes, tees, and unions, because im taking our new library of parts for a test drive.

I went to change the route diameter, and unfortunately the radius stayed the same while the rest of the parts changed from 2" to 4", so of course, the 4" elbows didnt like the smaller radius, and now ive got pretty red elbows and error messages instead of 4" elbows. Upon returning to the main assembly, the elbows just simple arent there anymore because a valid configuration wasn't available.

Why arent my radii updating to account for the new size of pipe?

Thanks!!

Peter De Vlieger May 4, 2010 3:03 AM

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The main thing that was needed you can deduce from the inclosed screenshots.

Once I changed over the name for that sketch as well as the name for the dimensions that define it in the design table everything started to fall in it's place.

To be exact, it seems that for an elbow one needs two sketches :

One named Route (the shape that will define the outside of the elbow)

2. one named ElbowArc (that defines the actual curve). FYI, the ElbowArc needs two measurements : One called Bendradius@ElbowArc and one called BendAngle@ElbowArc

In my experience naming them something else tends to give strange results.

It was a bit of nuisance to change the sketch name because the variables are determined by the table and the table is determined by the sketch and seeing as that I don't use inches at all I don't have the values or info at hand to simply remake it from scratch.

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Andy Hughes Apr 29, 2010 4:16 AM
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Hi Douglas,

Which version of 2010 are you on? This is not a known problem, it is something I have not seen in a very long time.

Are you using Change Route Diameter to change the route, or just changing the fittings and route properties? If using Change Route, try turning off automatic pipe/elbow selectin - you can then choose the required configs manually.

You say you are testing a new library, does this happen with the old library?

On exit route are you prompted with the alternate elbows dialog?

Sorry, that's a lot of questions! Hopefully they will help.

Cheers

Andy
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- 1-M4OM40 @ Andy Hughes on Apr 29, 2010 9:38 AM
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  Hi there,
  
  Im running SWX 2010 SP2.1
  
  I had one on one training with a routing guru and while he was here it was working, and no it didnt work in the old library because it was a really bad library...
  
  Right now my job is fixing up the library, and together we fixed a few parts and the elbow was working okay while the mentor was here but now its not working. Is there something I must be doing wrong?
  
  I am using change route diameter, and it will do any of three random things and i cant sort out how it chooses to do them:
  
  Sometimes it updates the elbows like its supposed to!!! Sometimes it creates a curved length of pipe instead???? and sometimes it just deletes the elbows and doesnt know what to do!!??
  
  I can make a length of pipe with 3 elbows and just change the size over and over and over again, with different random results every time. I have been changing settings in the change route diameter trying to determine if there is any order to the madness, trying to at least make it make errors predictably, but from what ive experienced, its completely random so i cant actually figure it out.
  
  I am not prompted with alternate elbow dialoge box upon exit route.
  
  I have tried finding elbows automatically and choosing them manually, it has no effect as far as i can tell.
  
  I love to learn by testing and figuring things out, but because its completely random i am lost!!!
  
  Thanks
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  - Peter De Vlieger @ 1-M4OM40 on Apr 29, 2010 9:52 AM
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    Perhaps a long shot, perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but have you checked what settings you are using when you start the pipe ?
    
    E.g.: see the image and the setting half way down that states "prompt for selection"
    
    Another thing you can do is either make sure that all the straight lines are according to the X,y, z axis or either that you put in perpendicular relationships between each change of direction because if an angle isn't perfect 90° then it won't put in an elbow but instead will make a bended pipe.
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    Prompt.jpg55.7 KB
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    - 1-M4OM40 @ Peter De Vlieger on Apr 29, 2010 9:55 AM
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      What will the effect be of choosing that selection, when it comes to changing route diameter? I had it set as use elbows only before
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      - Peter De Vlieger @ 1-M4OM40 on Apr 29, 2010 10:03 AM
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        If the elbows you're using are defined as should be, with the correct arc radius then it shouldn't make a difference.
        If however there is a problem and if you have the prompt for selection option checked then when the angle's aren't perfect 90° or there's something wrong with the elbow of the size you want to change to then it should bring up a dialog box to ask you what it should do
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        1-M4OM40 @ Peter De Vlieger on Apr 29, 2010 10:09 AM
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        I made that selection, and now theres a new text box in the route diameter change box. It says bend radius. Where is it pulling those values? Should they match the values of the elbows? If they dont, how can you modify the values its finding?
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        Peter De Vlieger @ 1-M4OM40 on Apr 29, 2010 10:34 AM
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        Perhaps it would be easier to see where the problem lays if you would post a couple of screenshots or even would post the offending elbow with pipe (if it isn't too big)
        
        (in case you didn't know, you can make a screenshot in SW by going to the pull down "view" , sub selection screen capture
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        1-M4OM40 @ Peter De Vlieger on Apr 29, 2010 10:50 AM
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        Here's our elbow, look it over and make sure theres nothing wrong with how its made perhaps?
        
        Also, in the image below, i had a 1/2" version that worked okay the first time i made it, (everything works the first time i make it) but i then tried to change it to 3", and as you can see the radii didnt update.
        Attachments
        stupid elbows.bmp1.5 MB
        Elbow, 90deg, Metal.SLDPRT.zip4.8 MB
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        Peter De Vlieger @ 1-M4OM40 on Apr 29, 2010 11:30 AM
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        My day is finished so I'm out of here. I did have a quick look and I didn't see anything obviously wrong with the part.
        
        Will look in detail when I have some time tomorrow (during lunch)
        
        One question in parting, does the diameter of the pipe correspond to the diameter's you use in the part ?
        
        I've had it happen that a pipe didn't want to use ND250 elbow because the elbow was 273mm and the the pipe was defined as 273.1mm
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        1-M4OM40 @ Peter De Vlieger on Apr 29, 2010 11:56 AM
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        The nominal diameter@filtersketch in the pipe must match with diameter@cpoint1, cpoint 2, in piping components.
        
        I double checked these numbers and the correct diameters are chosen for each configuration.
        
        Also, bendradius@elbowarc is set to the correct figures as far as i can tell.
        
        Please do have a close look
        and thanks again
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        Peter De Vlieger @ 1-M4OM40 on Apr 30, 2010 8:30 AM
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        Try this and let me know if it works any better.
        
        I think I found several little errors but the only way to tell for sure is to see if it now responds as one could expect.
        
        I hope so because I've spend the better part of my lunch hour on trying to tweak it.
        
        Due to my fiddling with it the sizes smaller then 1"¼ have developed an error. Which you should be able to fix easily, unfornately I don't have the time right now. it should be fixable by copying the values for those smaller sizes from your previous version to this one.
        Attachments
        Elbow, 90deg, Metal_v2.SLDPRT.zip604.5 KB
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        1-M4OM40 @ Peter De Vlieger on May 3, 2010 11:47 AM
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        Everything seems to be working okay now,
        
        Just out of curiosity, what errors were you able to find/fix so that I may apply those changes to parts in the future if this ever happends again?
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        Peter De Vlieger @ 1-M4OM40 on May 4, 2010 3:03 AM
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        The main thing that was needed you can deduce from the inclosed screenshots.
        
        Once I changed over the name for that sketch as well as the name for the dimensions that define it in the design table everything started to fall in it's place.
        
        To be exact, it seems that for an elbow one needs two sketches :
        One named Route (the shape that will define the outside of the elbow)
        2. one named ElbowArc (that defines the actual curve). FYI, the ElbowArc needs two measurements : One called Bendradius@ElbowArc and one called BendAngle@ElbowArc
        In my experience naming them something else tends to give strange results.
        
        It was a bit of nuisance to change the sketch name because the variables are determined by the table and the table is determined by the sketch and seeing as that I don't use inches at all I don't have the values or info at hand to simply remake it from scratch.
        Attachments
        original.jpg44.8 KB
        adjusted.jpg45.8 KB
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        1-M4OM40 @ Peter De Vlieger on May 4, 2010 8:20 AM
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        Thanks very much for your assistance!
        It is greatly appreciated
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        1-M4OM40 @ Peter De Vlieger on May 4, 2010 9:12 AM
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        Oh wait a minute, its still not updating
        
        It did at first but the radius is nolonger updating the radius.
        Is there any other possibilities for causing this?
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        Peter De Vlieger @ 1-M4OM40 on May 4, 2010 9:26 AM
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        hmmm....
        
        Try this :
        
        - make a test route with let's say 4 elbows
        - once it's all created, save it and make sure there's no errors in it
        - change the diameter by means of using the "change route diameter" function
        
        Do this by
        - first clicking the function
        - clicking on of the route pieces
        - checking the box of the first fitting : this means that you can select a different config for it (a.k.a. change the size)
        - this will open up a small area that shows you the Bend radius (don't need to do anything with it)
        - click on the blue arrow (just beneath the question mark at the top of the propertymanager)
        - keep clicking on those arrows until you can't anymore and click on the green check mark
        
        A new dialog box might appear which will show you one elbow at a time that it wants confirmation which elbow to use, just click ok for each of them
        If it doesn't propose an elbow for it then I would expect that there are still errors in your design table.
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Elbow Radius Not Updating upon Route Diameter Change

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