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How to orient street elbows?

Question asked by Kevin Bouwman on Nov 29, 2009
Latest reply on Nov 22, 2010 by Kevin Bouwman

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Hi All,

I just started a copper pipe route for a chiller condensing unit and discovered that I don't know how to orient street elbows such that the hub and the spigot point the correct way. When clearances and pipe diameters make it impractical to form the pipe I find that we use street elbows to solve a lot of problems in our refrigeration circuits. My current route has one street elbow at the start and two more at the end forming a sort of ubend. SW oriented the first and last elbow correctly but the middle one is oriented hub to hub with its mate when I would prefer that it was hub to spigot. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would sure appreciate it.

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David Paulson Nov 29, 2009 2:56 AM
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Kevin,

I also design refrigeration circuits and have had the same problem with street elbows as you are having. I worked around this issue by creating a "right hand" and a "left hand" version of these parts. There should be a more elegant way to do this, so anyone else who has a suggestion, I also am all ears.
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- Kevin Bouwman @ David Paulson on Nov 29, 2009 9:45 AM
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  David,
  
  How exactly did you do this? Did you create a second set of configurations within the street elbow part where the hub and spigot are reversed and then select the opposite configuration one whenever the displayed one was backwards? I can see where this would work but does this produce two lines in the BOM?
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Andy Hughes Dec 2, 2009 11:35 AM
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Hiya Kevin,

Could you post your elbow here - together with a mathing pipe/tube part. I'll happily take a look at it for you.

Cheers

Andy
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- Kevin Bouwman @ Andy Hughes on Dec 2, 2009 2:53 PM
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  Attached is a simplified version of the route I was trying to create.
  
  Workflow:
  1. I started by inserting the Suction Accumulator Assembly
  2. I told the route creation dialog box that I wanted to use the 90 degree copper street elbows
  3. I deleted the route stub I did not need.
  4. I added a line perpendicular to the route stub (horizontal)
  5. I added another line perpendicular the the second (vertical)
  6. I added a final line perpendicular to the previous (horizontal again)
  7. Now that the bends were showing I used "remove pipe" to remove the original route sub
  8. I also used "remove pipe" to remove both horizontal pipes
  9. When I finished the route you can see that the street elbow is in the Suction Accumulator correctly but the two street elbows at the top of the route do not mate to each other properly
  
  Is my elbow model wrong, is my route creation method wrong, or both?
  My intent is to next connect the final street elbow to another piece of equipment. What would be the correct way to do that?
  Attachments
  - Street Elbow Route Test.zip5.8 MB
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  - Merry Owen @ Kevin Bouwman on Dec 4, 2009 4:30 AM
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    Hi Kevin,
    
    I was not able to play with your test as I have not loaded 2010 yet (maybe this weekend as the disc has finally arrived); however, you cannot use the remove pipe option between 2 street elbows as the CPoint is embedded in the elbow at the point the pipe would finish. If you wanted to butt these 2 elbows together, you would need to leave a small length of pipe to fit into the socket of each elbow. This is the same principal as connecting 2 threaded sockets, you need to have a nipple between the 2 fittings.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Regards
    
    Merry
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    - Kevin Bouwman @ Merry Owen on Dec 4, 2009 11:22 AM
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      Merry,
      
      I really appreciate it when people post models if they post a screen cap and say what version of SW is needed to open the model. I am sorry I forgot to mention the version.
      
      It is not completely clear by the the screen capture but I am trying to insert the spigot of the second street elbow in the hub of the one in the tank. Are you saying that I still need a pipe nipple inbetween these elbows to get it to display correctly. That would not be a reflection of how the piping run would actually be assembled. Note that the connecting points for the two elbows are not coincident. I thought that pipes between fittings went from connecting point to connecting point. I understand a nipple is needed if the elbows are connected hub to hub.
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Tommy Thomasson Nov 9, 2010 8:48 AM
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I know this is an older post, but has anyone found a way to circumvent this (rather than creating "left" and "right" street elbow configurations)?

I also design refrigeration systems - every refrigeration designer on earth will encounter this scenario eventually (if not daily ).
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- Kevin Bouwman @ Tommy Thomasson on Nov 9, 2010 1:36 PM
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  Yes I did. If you drag the elbow to the end point or a corner vertex of a route without letting go of the mouse button. Then hitting the tab key will cause the other connecting point to be selected. Don't let go of the mouse button yet. If you now hit the right and left arrows the fitting will rotate to, or near, the orientation you want. Now you can let go of the mouse button. I have System Options\Routing\Component Rotation Angle set to 15 degrees. You can set this to what ever you want.
  
  I hope to check soon if 2011fixes the problem where you remove the pipe between a street elbow spigot and the hub of another elbow.
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  - Tommy Thomasson @ Kevin Bouwman on Nov 10, 2010 8:29 AM
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    Kevin Bouwman wrote:
    
    "If you drag the elbow to the end point or a corner vertex of a route without letting go of the mouse button."
    
    I'm not sure I understand "drag the elbow." I'm used to working with fillets in the route skecth (where the fillet controls the elbow), and controlling the specific elbows with "Route Segment Properties."
    
    Can you post a pic or two that demonstrates how you do this?
    
    Here's what I run into. I run a route with street elbows specified; upon exiting the route, I realize that one (or more) elbows didn't orient correctly.
    
    The elbow in the middle should have the spigot end in the heat exchanger.
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    - Kevin Bouwman @ Tommy Thomasson on Nov 11, 2010 9:03 AM
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      I will try do a detailed answer over the weeked...stay tuned.
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    - Kevin Bouwman @ Tommy Thomasson on Nov 20, 2010 12:21 PM
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      Here is a PDF file I created to try explain better how I create such routes and how I get the street elbows configured the way I want.
      Attachments
      Street Elbow Demo.pdf1.6 MB
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      - Louie Tisdale @ Kevin Bouwman on Nov 22, 2010 4:25 PM
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        Kevin,
        
        Where did you get all the copper fittings?
        
        Thanks,
        
        Louie
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        Kevin Bouwman @ Louie Tisdale on Nov 22, 2010 6:53 PM
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        I created them from scratch. They are designed to be modified. Any size variation can be created by typing key dimensions from the manufacturers catalog into an Excel sheet. I hope to write an article soon about how I believe routing fittings should be created. I've developed a set of fitting model templates that can be used for nearly any fitting standard. I have been thinking long and hard about how to make the fittings available to others without just giving them away. I have thought some about a method that gets them free to anyone who adds a one set of fittings to the library. For example, if you use the templates to create the PVC DWV fittings you get a copy of the fitting sets created by the other participants. If you don't want to, or can't, create a set to contribute then you pay a modest fee for the library.
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How to orient street elbows?

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