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Flexible componets in a large rotary engine assembly

Question asked by 1-7UEHFD on Nov 22, 2009
Latest reply on Nov 24, 2009 by 1-7UEHFD

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Hello all,

I am currently working on a SolidWorks Clerget Rotary Engine model for my design classes. I have been making great progress until I have tried to attach the connecting rods to to the rocker arms on the top of the cylinder heads.

If I keep the cylinder barrel assembly ridgit, I can easily rotate the cylinder assembly, along with the pistons, and cam gearing and pushrods around the stationary crankshaft.

The instant I change the cylinder barrel assembly to flexible to allow movment of valves, I run into all sorts of problems. Firstly the model grinds to a halt, and mates go out of alignment. I am wondering if the large number of flexable components is causing problems, as there is a huge number of calculations to solve as the engine rotates around the crankshaft.

I have set the entire assembly to lightweight, with no change in results. I am currently running SolidWorks on a Lenovo W500 with 4GB of RAM and a T9400 processor. I have learned to SolidWorks is only using one core becasue the task manager is saying the processor is used at 50% while the engine assembly is struggling. This is the most complex project that I have ever attempted with SolidWorks. All of my other projects (with much less moving parts) worked worked well on this computer.

Is there anything that I have overlooked? Have I made several mating errors that are only making things worse, as the model rotates around the stationary crankshaft?

I have included all of the required files.

Thanks

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Screen shot-Clerget Assembly.docx727.1 KB
Clerget-Complete Assembly.zip19.5 MB

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Mauricio Martinez-Saez Nov 22, 2009 4:29 PM

Claudio,

I believe you have some problem with the way you have defined the mates, I have downloaded the model and as soon I have some time I will look into it and see if I can fix the issue. The screen capture you post do not show the push-rods, are those included on the assembly? if not please post a complete assembly.

Your computer and video card can be to small to work with this assembly fully resolved and to do a motion simulation, howeever if the compueter do not get out of RAM it should work (slow but will work), I have a very large computer with multi CPU's and 32Gb of phisical RAM, so I will not have any computer related problems, therefore if I am able to fix the issue and have the aseembly working on my computer it should work in yours as long as it load properly without giving an OUT of RAM error.

Will post back on this as soon as I have the time to play with your assembly.

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1-7UEHFD @ Mauricio Martinez-Saez on Nov 22, 2009 11:39 PM

Thank You so much for responding.

I have never recieved an "Out of RAM" or "Out of Memory" error since I have started this project.

I have posted an updated assembly that includes the push-rods mated to the intake and exhaust rocker arms on one cylinder only. I was hoping to do a circular pattern when I got that cylinder to work.

I don't mind if the assembly moves slowly. It will be better for my students to study. Currently the assembly rotates very nicely when the Cylinder Barrel assembly is ridgit, and the push-rods are not mated to the rocker arms and ridgit as well.

Will keeping everything light wieght make a difference?

Thanks

Attachments

Clerget-Complete Assembly pack and go Nov 22 09.zip19.6 MB

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Mauricio Martinez-Saez @ 1-7UEHFD on Nov 24, 2009 2:32 PM

Claudio,

Read my previous post... do you have all the missing parts (front Drum, etc.), since those are parts that will need to "rotate" with the engine, it will be better if those are assembled as I put together the components and create the mates required for the "motion simulation" to work. Some mates may require some auxiliary geometry and themodel may need some changes on the structure of subassemblies to make the motion easier to work.

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Claudio Forcolin @ Mauricio Martinez-Saez on Nov 24, 2009 3:20 PM

Hi Mauricio,

Those components were included in the assembly. I just hid them to make it easier to work on the cam and push rod assembles. Le me know if they did not come thorugh. The push rod guides were all loced by the Front Drum component, which I hid. I also hid the bearing support, and the nose piece.

If they do not show up in the pack-and-go zip file I posted, let me know and I will send the copies.

Thanks

Claudio

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Mauricio Martinez-Saez @ Claudio Forcolin on Nov 24, 2009 6:51 PM

I founded... now I need some free time to try to fix the assembly.

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1-7UEHFD @ Mauricio Martinez-Saez on Nov 24, 2009 9:27 PM

Thats great!!!

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John Sutherland Nov 22, 2009 6:58 PM

Did your successful projects place moving parts in flexible sub assemblies?

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1-7UEHFD @ John Sutherland on Nov 22, 2009 11:44 PM

No. I normally work with Dies and Fixtures. The Clerget Rotary Engine is the most complex project I have attempted to date. One I finaly get it to work, I'm sure my students will be impressed of SOlidWorks capabilities.

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Mauricio Martinez-Saez Nov 24, 2009 2:28 PM

I take a look of your assembly, you have some problems with the way the model is estructured and mate togheter... Since it is a bottom-up assembly, I will try to put it together starting from scratch and do a new mates structure that will work with the motion simulation. This will require some time and now I am in the middle of a project I need to finish... but before I start doing this I will like to have from you some answers to the following:

1.- I believe that all the parts are fully defined and there are no in-contex relations (a 100% bottom-up assembly), which will allow me to create a new assembly adding parts as required. Can I change the structure and content of some of the sub-assemblies if required in order to make the model work?

2.- I noticed that the assembly do not include all the parts at the front of the engine, including the front drum and the hub where the proppeler is mounted, (see picture of the Clerget engine attached), it will beter if you have those parts and post them so I have all the parts to mate the entire assembly. Can you do that? (or you can send them to me using a public FTP such as RapidShare (you can send me an email to m_g_martinez@hotmail.com ).

3.- Do you want just to create a motion simulation? or do you want to perform a Motion Analysis? the 2nd, will be a lot more complex, since it will require the definition of motion analysis mates, contact surfaces, material properties, etc. However, your model do not have any materials specified, therefore I believe that all you want is to do a motion simulation, is this correct?

Once the entire assembly is mate correctly, the model should work, you have done a good job modeling all the parts and I believe that taking some time, we will be able see it rotating. As mentioned, I can not do it now, so what it is your time frame for this?

Regards,

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9 Replies

Mauricio Martinez-Saez Nov 22, 2009 4:29 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Claudio,

I believe you have some problem with the way you have defined the mates, I have downloaded the model and as soon I have some time I will look into it and see if I can fix the issue. The screen capture you post do not show the push-rods, are those included on the assembly? if not please post a complete assembly.

Your computer and video card can be to small to work with this assembly fully resolved and to do a motion simulation, howeever if the compueter do not get out of RAM it should work (slow but will work), I have a very large computer with multi CPU's and 32Gb of phisical RAM, so I will not have any computer related problems, therefore if I am able to fix the issue and have the aseembly working on my computer it should work in yours as long as it load properly without giving an OUT of RAM error.

Will post back on this as soon as I have the time to play with your assembly.
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- 1-7UEHFD @ Mauricio Martinez-Saez on Nov 22, 2009 11:39 PM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  Thank You so much for responding.
  I have never recieved an "Out of RAM" or "Out of Memory" error since I have started this project.
  I have posted an updated assembly that includes the push-rods mated to the intake and exhaust rocker arms on one cylinder only. I was hoping to do a circular pattern when I got that cylinder to work.
  I don't mind if the assembly moves slowly. It will be better for my students to study. Currently the assembly rotates very nicely when the Cylinder Barrel assembly is ridgit, and the push-rods are not mated to the rocker arms and ridgit as well.
  Will keeping everything light wieght make a difference?
  
  Thanks
  Attachments
  - Clerget-Complete Assembly pack and go Nov 22 09.zip19.6 MB
  Like • Show 0 Likes0
  Actions
  - Mauricio Martinez-Saez @ 1-7UEHFD on Nov 24, 2009 2:32 PM
    Mark Correct
    Correct Answer
    Claudio,
    
    Read my previous post... do you have all the missing parts (front Drum, etc.), since those are parts that will need to "rotate" with the engine, it will be better if those are assembled as I put together the components and create the mates required for the "motion simulation" to work. Some mates may require some auxiliary geometry and themodel may need some changes on the structure of subassemblies to make the motion easier to work.
    Like • Show 0 Likes0
    Actions
    - Claudio Forcolin @ Mauricio Martinez-Saez on Nov 24, 2009 3:20 PM
      Mark Correct
      Correct Answer
      Hi Mauricio,
      
      Those components were included in the assembly. I just hid them to make it easier to work on the cam and push rod assembles. Le me know if they did not come thorugh. The push rod guides were all loced by the Front Drum component, which I hid. I also hid the bearing support, and the nose piece.
      If they do not show up in the pack-and-go zip file I posted, let me know and I will send the copies.
      
      Thanks
      
      Claudio
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      - Mauricio Martinez-Saez @ Claudio Forcolin on Nov 24, 2009 6:51 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        I founded... now I need some free time to try to fix the assembly.
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        1-7UEHFD @ Mauricio Martinez-Saez on Nov 24, 2009 9:27 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Thats great!!!
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
John Sutherland Nov 22, 2009 6:58 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Did your successful projects place moving parts in flexible sub assemblies?
Like • Show 0 Likes0
Actions
- 1-7UEHFD @ John Sutherland on Nov 22, 2009 11:44 PM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  No. I normally work with Dies and Fixtures. The Clerget Rotary Engine is the most complex project I have attempted to date. One I finaly get it to work, I'm sure my students will be impressed of SOlidWorks capabilities.
  Like • Show 0 Likes0
  Actions
Mauricio Martinez-Saez Nov 24, 2009 2:28 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
I take a look of your assembly, you have some problems with the way the model is estructured and mate togheter... Since it is a bottom-up assembly, I will try to put it together starting from scratch and do a new mates structure that will work with the motion simulation. This will require some time and now I am in the middle of a project I need to finish... but before I start doing this I will like to have from you some answers to the following:

1.- I believe that all the parts are fully defined and there are no in-contex relations (a 100% bottom-up assembly), which will allow me to create a new assembly adding parts as required. Can I change the structure and content of some of the sub-assemblies if required in order to make the model work?

2.- I noticed that the assembly do not include all the parts at the front of the engine, including the front drum and the hub where the proppeler is mounted, (see picture of the Clerget engine attached), it will beter if you have those parts and post them so I have all the parts to mate the entire assembly. Can you do that? (or you can send them to me using a public FTP such as RapidShare (you can send me an email to m_g_martinez@hotmail.com ).

3.- Do you want just to create a motion simulation? or do you want to perform a Motion Analysis? the 2nd, will be a lot more complex, since it will require the definition of motion analysis mates, contact surfaces, material properties, etc. However, your model do not have any materials specified, therefore I believe that all you want is to do a motion simulation, is this correct?

Once the entire assembly is mate correctly, the model should work, you have done a good job modeling all the parts and I believe that taking some time, we will be able see it rotating. As mentioned, I can not do it now, so what it is your time frame for this?

Regards,
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Flexible componets in a large rotary engine assembly

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