I've been out of the PDM line of fire for a while (probably 8 years), and I know things have changed. What are the favorite low end PDM options, either DS or third party, that are available now? Approximate pricing for a single seat would also be useful. Cloud or non-cloud.
We don't have a set of requirements as yet. It's a fast moving target, and it's not even a "my company" type of situation at this point. I just need something for revision management, BOM extraction, check in/out, view/print, SW integration, non-CAD user access.
I really just want information, not interested in a sales pitch. Something along the lines of defunct PDMWorks or DBWorks, if that exists any more.
Hi Matt,
Sounds like you need PDM Standard. It 'replaced' WPDM prior to it's retirement when it was added in 2016. It's a cut down version of PDM Professional (previously known as Enterprise PDM) that uses a single Workflow to Revision Manage SolidWorks and Draftsight Pro data natively (although any file can be thrown in the Vault). BOM's can be 'saved' as csv files (exporting a BOM automatically requires Pro). The interface is windows Explorer with integrated eDrawings for viewing / printing Managed Data.
If you have SolidWorks Professional or Premium you already have access to PDM Standard licenses for each of those seats. For non-CAD users there are 'contributors who can add other documents to the Vault and Viewers who can View (but also participate in Workflow 'transitions') - all licenses float.
As a business system that needs to be installed with a database engine (SQL Express) behind it and also needs be configured for use (build the workflow / metadata etc) you may want to talk to your VAR about Implementation Services they can offer - especially if you want to get the most from the system in the shortest amount of time (yes you could probably set it up yourself, but have you really got time for that?). Your VAR will also need to 'release' the serial numbers to you since when they were added to the SolidWorks 'assets' back in 2016 they were not available for 'activation' automatically, this has to be done by your VAR as a process.
BTW... DBWorks is still around, but of our Customers (we sold DBWorks before PDM Pro came along) the majority have moved to the SolidWorks PDM platform by now (some Pro, a couple Standard as their requirements / company size dropped).
Good luck
Wayne
If you want to look outside of the DS offerings I'm pretty satisfied with Pulse PLM - Product Lifecycle Management Software that we're using here. You can pick and mix exactly which modules you want to use with the cost varying accordingly.
I find the search tools more user-friendly than the ones on offer in PDM Standard. SW integration is different than PDM Standard, but you'd be hard pushed to describe one as better or worse. One drawback is that it's a bit harder to manage things like templates / blocks / material databases etc, but it's still doable.
Hello Matt,... similar in that I have little need so, I honestly do NOT know... I do not work with large assemblies but have been lurking to see something which makes practical sense in how I work or maybe using a combo...?
Years ago.. the one which seemed inline with the needs for my clients lifecycle.. was Aras (had just about everything)
Otherwise.. .. a lurking review link:
https://www.g2.com/products/solidworks-pdm/competitors/alternatives
and,..some I did not see there..
DDM: (~$1.5k/lic and ~$500/yr?)
https://www.designdatamanager.com/contact/about/
OpenBOM: (combo w/pdm std... cloud?)
https://www.openbom.com/blog/openbom-for-solidworks-pdm
Wayne Marshall Thank you for that information. So all of the SW PDM offerings are based on the product formerly known as Conisio? Do I have that right? DBWorks has been around for a long time. Can you guarantee me that the Conisio-based product will not meet the same ignominious end as PDMWorks? I knew some people who were more than a little annoyed at that.
We are currently looking to move to PDM Standard (coming from Windows Explorer...). I know for a fact that PDM Standard is free with SWX Professional but the catch is the SQL database. IIRC if you need >2 GB of storage you'll need a higher level of SQL (as compared to SQL Express).
My biggest concern with using a third party PDM is the opportunity for finger-pointing between them and Dassault. SWX has enough problems without opening another can of worms!
Michael Miller wrote:
We are currently looking to move to PDM Standard (coming from Windows Explorer...). I know for a fact that PDM Standard is free with SWX Professional but the catch is the SQL database. IIRC if you need >2 GB of storage you'll need a higher level of SQL (as compared to SQL Express).
My biggest concern with using a third party PDM is the opportunity for finger-pointing between them and Dassault. SWX has enough problems without opening another can of worms!
Just remember that the size of the SQL database is NOT the same as the size of the files that will be stored in PDM.
I have a feeling that a lot of people will look on their network, and think "I have 40GB worth of files, PDM Standard won't work for me." In reality, you can manage a LOT of files and stay under the SQL Express size limit. (The database file is surprisingly small.)
Unless there is something that I don't know about, Matt is right, this is just the latest in the ongoing PDM evolution - Was originally Conisio, they were purchased by SolidWorks, it became Enterprise PDM, which then became SolidWorks PDM (Standard & Professional).
Michael Miller wrote:
We are currently looking to move to PDM Standard (coming from Windows Explorer...). I know for a fact that PDM Standard is free with SWX Professional but the catch is the SQL database. IIRC if you need >2 GB of storage you'll need a higher level of SQL (as compared to SQL Express).
My biggest concern with using a third party PDM is the opportunity for finger-pointing between them and Dassault. SWX has enough problems without opening another can of worms!
That's a common misconception. That's the size of the database table. You can have terabytes of data, AFAIK. IIRC, the point at which you may be looking to go to Pro is if you have more than something like 7 or 8 users.
What determines the size of the database table, and how is that different from storage space?
The architecture of SOLIDWORKS PDM essentially separates the vault configuration and file metadata (the database) away from the files themselves (the archive). That means we have customers who have been using PDM Pro for years with 100gb’s of data in their Vault but a database that is still under 10gb.
don’t get me wrong though if you were to add 100’s of variables to data cards and change the value of those variables on each checkin, creating many versions every day... your database would soon inflate!
cheers.
Wayne
Hi Matt,
Im just a humble employee of a SOLIDWORKS VAR, so I can’t guarantee the lifetime of any product. What I will say is that the recent investment in RevZone to create SOLIDWORKS Manage and the massive amount of development I’m seeing in that product (which uses PDM Pro as its file Management engine) suggests to me that we are in it for the long haul (and my job depends on that!)
I am well aware that the demise of WPDM wasn’t welcomed by many, but essentially it was based on really old inefficient technology (text files!!) and simply wasn’t a viable platform for DS to take forward. Creating PDM STD from EPDM was a very smart move (upgrading from STD TO PRO is a breeze), but I can’t deny how difficult (and costly to us) some WPDM migration projects have been. Unfortunately, due to its architecture, It was too easy to configure / use WPDM badly - so migrations to a database driven system (reliant on consistency) were never going to be straightforward!
hope you find the answer you need in this thread.
cheers
Wayne.
All PDM are a database, list of all your files and their relation.
An index.
So that's all it store in the database.
Your 40GB part is just a name in the database, ok a bit more than name.
Mod
Michael Miller wrote:
What determines the size of the database table, and how is that different from storage space?
The database table is essentially "pointing" to the actual files, it does not store the files, it just keeps track of them.
I don't have a great analogy, but think of it like exporting a large assembly BOM to Excel - the spreadsheet file is relatively small compared to the 5,000 piece assembly. It doesn't "contain" the parts, it just lists them.
t
Michael Miller wrote:
What determines the size of the database table, and how is that different from storage space?
I'm not doing a good job putting together words today, this visual might help -
All of your files are kept on the "Archive Servers", and these are "controlled" by the "Database Server" which is running on SQL.
The Database Server file size is limited with SQL Express, but it is just a "directory/road map" for the Archive Server.
todd
Michael Miller wrote:
What determines the size of the database table, and how is that different from storage space?
The size of the database (which is actually many tables) is driven by a lot of things. It boils down to how complex your PDM setup is. The more variables you have on your data cards, the bigger the database. The more workflows you have, the bigger the database, and so on with permissions, transitions, revisions, document count, workflow states, etc...
I'm not sure if this analogy is correct, but think of it as a library. The card catalog is your database table. The library full of books is your data....
Scott Perman wrote:
I'm not sure if this analogy is correct, but think of it as a library. The card catalog is your database table. The library full of books is your data....
Way better than my analogy!
(I almost went with a phone book & houses analogy - I essentially wanted to say that the database just points to the files.)
t
Jim Sculley wrote:
Michael Miller wrote:
What determines the size of the database table, and how is that different from storage space?
The size of the database (which is actually many tables) is driven by a lot of things. It boils down to how complex your PDM setup is. The more variables you have on your data cards, the bigger the database. The more workflows you have, the bigger the database, and so on with permissions, transitions, revisions, document count, workflow states, etc...
Just for clarification, you can only have 1 workflow with PDM Standard. This may or may not be a deal breaker, but it's an important point. When considering options, it's important that ALL of the options are considered. What may be a minor inconvenience for one situation may be a deal breaker for another. Another gripe I see on this forum is that Standard doesn't have access to the API.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PDM Standard isn't good. It is good for what it is, it's just important to understand what you are buying, and sometimes the marketing material doesn't really let you know how it will really work for you.
Wayne Marshall This isn't personal, but new products at DS seem like shooting your customer's horse in the middle of Kansas, making customers carry their saddle to Illinois, pay a hefty upgrade, then getting on another horse that you didn't have any option picking out. There are other CAD companies out there who have heard of the concept of "smooth transition", but I recognize that's a lot of work, and tough to pull off. It's easier to just shoot the old horse.
Although I've liked the SolidWorks product through it's lifetime, I'm apprehensive about committing to a future with a company that doesn't believe in smooth transitions.
Dave Laban How long has Pulse been around? How many users do you have using it? Do you get upgrades/updates?
I do miss WPDM. It was much easier to setup and use than PDM.
Matt Lombard Feels a bit like Insight connect or XT when SharePoint went off the rails and then BiDM(unless you don't use windows shares) LOL.
Chris Saller wrote:
I do miss WPDM. It was much easier to setup and use than PDM.
Me too...Matt Lombard can't set Standard up and test it nearly as easy. I remember doing that to test out WPDM and it was very simple, just install the server and client on the same machine, good to go. Now you need to configure the SNL with PDM Standard.
On a tangent, are there any DDM users around that would care to comment? We set it up here, but because of the way it worked we ended up going with PDM Standard. DDM is setup more for all files and not just centered around CAD. So, depending on what Matt needs, it may be a better solution.
What caused us problems was that it treats every configuration as a "file" in the system. We don't have the data management needs that some others do, and we like having our nuts and bolts configured. This didn't play well with how we wanted to do things. But, I'm sure for some this may actually be an advantage.
Matt Lombard wrote:
Dave Laban How long has Pulse been around? How many users do you have using it? Do you get upgrades/updates?
My employer has been using it since 2006, I only joined towards the end of 2018 so can only comment on what I've seen since then.
We currently have 7 licensed users though I'm the only SolidWorks user right now (electrical / software departments also use it). It's very much a design vault for us, we use another system for purchasing / inventory etc.
Upgrade and updates do happen though not super frequently (and as long as you stay on (reasonably priced) subs). I've been very impressed with their response time to some of my enhancement requests, many of which have made it in to the software in a matter of months and when it hasn't been possible, I've had a clear explanation why. We don't run on the bleeding edge of SolidWorks versions (currently on 2019 SP5) so can't comment on how long it takes for them to get their add-in (used for check-in/out etc.) compatible with the latest version, but I do know going from 2017 to '18 to '19 took nothing more than a 5 minute reinstall of their add-in.
Hi Matt, as I said, I don’t work for DS so I’m not going to take anything Product related personal 
. What I will say is that I've been around Data Management for a long time and I've seen many products come and go in various channels. I started in the Solid Edge channel and saw an early SVN type product get superseded by Solid Edge Insight (no upgrade route) and then Insight get canned for TeamCenter 'Express' (no upgrade route) simply because they all used different and incompatible technologies behind them. Similarly, in the PTC channel users of Intralink found that moving to Windchill was a massive undertaking and so on with ADESK etc. Essentially, this isn't solely a DS/SWks issue, but I believe that by offering PDM Standard as the entry level Data Management tool for SOLIDWORKS that they have learned from WPDM and that they now provide a truly scaleable Data Management family (Right click over PDM Standard Vault... 'Upgrade to Professional').
As a business we’ve migrated MANY customers from WPDM to PDM STD / PRO, we’ve also migrated customers from other systems such as DDM (we are doing two currently), MAXXDB, DBWorks, Windchill, Inventor Vault, SmartTeam and various other local solutions. As they store data and metadata differently they all have their challenges and to be honest we very rarely make any profit on the migration (a WPDM to PDM Std Migration can take weeks of our time and although mostly that's just computer time with each pilot potentially taking several days to complete - a requirement to fine tune and hopefully edit out the corruptions and incompatibilities that WPDM allowed (Circular bloody references for a start!) - It's still a very hands on, one size definitely doesn't fit all, process.
Cheers
Wayne
Hi Matt,
It may be worth describing what your primary requirements for 'Low End File Management' are.It may be that you are just looking to collaborate and store data centrally using the 3DExperience Platform, or you may be looking to control access to managed data based on Life Cycle Status (and Project) via PDM Std, or add on automatically generating Part Numbers and provide shop floor access via a Tablet which would require PDM Pro. SW 'Manage' add's Processes, Project Management, Record Based BOMs and Dashboards. Enovia opens up the whole gamut of PLM... and that's just within the Dassault SolidWorks offerings!
Cheers
Wayne Marshall
Solid Solutions Management (UK)