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Sending out part to be machined, how to show threaded holes?

Question asked by Babar Firasat on Jun 28, 2019
Latest reply on Jul 2, 2019 by Frederick Law

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I need to send out a part to a shop which needs to be made and it contains a few holes, threaded and non threaded holes. I have used the hole wizard in the 3D model to show the holes. When I create a hole table table in the drawing, it doesn't state which holes need to be threaded. Am I right to assume that by using the hole wizard, the hole will be only be machined without threads. I know how to create threads but I have no idea how to send it out to the shop so they don't get annoyed and over quote me or something similar to that effect. Can I create a drawing and add notes and arrows on which hole needs to have threads?

Also another question: If I want to use M2.5 screw, what's the hole size I need to make? I saw a chart on google but it said the clearance level have to be 2.9 which I quit didn't get. Or is that something I dont need to worry about as long as I state this hole is M2.5?

Need help here guys.. recent grad.

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Tony Tieuli Jun 28, 2019 6:47 AM
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I need to send out a part to a shop which needs to be made and it contains a few holes, threaded and non threaded holes. I have used the hole wizard in the 3D model to show the holes. When I create a hole table table in the drawing, it doesn't state which holes need to be threaded. Am I right to assume that by using the hole wizard, the hole will be only be machined without threads. I know how to create threads but I have no idea how to send it out to the shop so they don't get annoyed and over quote me or something similar to that effect. Can I create a drawing and add notes and arrows on which hole needs to have threads?

Also another question: If I want to use M2.5 screw, what's the hole size I need to make? I saw a chart on google but it said the clearance level have to be 2.9 which I quit didn't get. Or is that something I dont need to worry about as long as I state this hole is M2.5?

Need help here guys.. recent grad.
Babar Firasat ,
It really depends on how you want to send information to the shop floor.
If you're only sending your model, which I do not recommend, any threaded holes you made with the hole wizard will be labeled as threaded in the feature tree unless you change the feature name.
I strongly recommend you send a drawing, either a hard copy or a .pdf, to the shop floor with all threaded holes and non threaded holes clearly called out. You don't have to call out the drilled hole size on threaded holes the thread size and depth are sufficient.
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Babar Firasat @ Tony Tieuli on Jun 28, 2019 7:43 AM
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Ok, that makes sense. For example, If I'm making a threaded hole for a M2.5 Screw. I shouldn't make the hole according to the clearance distance. I should keep it 2.5mm in diameter and use a cosmetic thread of 3mm on it and show it in the drawing?

Yes, I will only be sending step files and pdfs to the shop. Thanks.
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Tony Tieuli @ Babar Firasat on Jun 28, 2019 8:12 AM
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Babar Firasat wrote:

Ok, that makes sense. For example, If I'm making a threaded hole for a M2.5 Screw. I shouldn't make the hole according to the clearance distance. I should keep it 2.5mm in diameter and use a cosmetic thread of 3mm on it and show it in the drawing?

Yes, I will only be sending step files and pdfs to the shop. Thanks.
That's partially correct. You shouldn't make the hole to the clearance but you shouldn't use the 3mm cosmetic thread. The O.D. of a 2.5mm tapped hole is 2.5mm. If you use the Hole Wizard to put the 2.5mm tapped holes into your model like this:
Your holes will be the right diameters in the model.
When you create your drawing from the model, you can call out your holes on the drawing in several different ways:

And I'm sure that the SWX wizards here on the forum could show you several other ways.
Hope this helps.
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Matt Juric @ Babar Firasat on Jun 28, 2019 8:18 AM
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Maybe I'm missing the problem but if you used hole wizard and put the holes in as tapped holes then they should show up in the hole table labeled as tapped holes. If they aren't then either there is something wrong with your hole table or you didn't use tapped hole in hole wizard.

If you are making a threaded hole for a M2.5 screw you would use M2.5 tapped hole in the hole wizard.
When you add the hole table you get.
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J. Mather Jun 28, 2019 6:52 AM
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Can you Attach your *.sldprt and *.slddrw files here for review.
What textbook did you use in school?
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Frederick Law Jun 28, 2019 8:17 AM
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This is how a hole table looks like:
What are you missing?
Did you went through tutorial in help?
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Kevin Chandler Jul 1, 2019 7:58 AM
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Hello,

For threaded holes in Hole Wizard, near the bottom of the HW property manager is the Options section:

Each of these three icons affects the model and subsequently it affects the output to your drawing and your exported file
Shown below is the model with the center option selected for an M6X1.0 tapped hole.
The hole is the tap diameter and a cosmetic thread indication is also included.
If you don't want/need the cosmetic thread, then select the left option and only the tap diameter will be in the model:

The reason behind this post is not just to mention these options, but to specifically point out the danger (if that's the correct word) in using the right option.
With the right option selected, the major diameter is modelled in:
As you see from the Measure result, the model has a 6mm hole in it.
If this hole is machined from this model's data, the tap can't happen as the hole will have already been machined oversized.

Moral of the post: Keep an eye on HW tap options.

Kevin

EDIT:
I was a little slow on getting this post posted, but basically it's about what Tony Tieuli posted above.
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Matt Juric @ Kevin Chandler on Jun 28, 2019 8:32 AM
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Kevin,

I've never noticed but does SW show the different versions of hole wizard holes differently in a hole table? I would think that no matter how the hole is presented in the model it should still call it out as a tapped hole in a hole table?

Just curious.
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Kevin Chandler @ Matt Juric on Jun 28, 2019 9:10 AM
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Matt Juric wrote:

Kevin,

I've never noticed but does SW show the different versions of hole wizard holes differently in a hole table? I would think that no matter how the hole is presented in the model it should still call it out as a tapped hole in a hole table?

Just curious.
Matt Juric,

That, I don't know.

I just wanted to mention the HW tap options since the major diameter option effectively ruins the model for tapping when the model is used as output for machine code generation.
This happened here once, but fortunately it was on a relatively small part which hadn't been finished yet. But for anodized parts, tapping is post-finish, the ano cost will join the other costs sitting at the bottom of the scrap barrel.

I haven't checked lately, but I believe this option sticks when it's set, so if it's set wrong...
Plus, being located at the bottom of the HW manager and only showing for tapped holes, it's not readily evident.
Especially when you're assuming it's set correctly.

Kevin
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Matt Juric @ Kevin Chandler on Jun 28, 2019 9:25 AM
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That, I don't know.

I just wanted to mention the HW tap options since the major diameter option effectively ruins the model for tapping when the model is used as output for machine code generation.
This happened here once, but fortunately it was on a relatively small part which hadn't been finished yet. But for anodized parts, tapping is post-finish, the ano cost will join the other costs sitting at the bottom of the scrap barrel.

We have had the same problem several times with anything sent to laser. I think that in some cases their software picks up on the cosmetic thread in the model. You then end up getting parts back with nothing to tap. We have to be very careful on exactly what we send over to the laser/flame department. We either remove taps holes entirely from the model and machine them in later or remove cosmetic threads in the model.

removing material is almost always way easier then adding it :-)
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Tony Tieuli @ Matt Juric on Jun 28, 2019 9:38 AM
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Matt Juric wrote:

That, I don't know.

I just wanted to mention the HW tap options since the major diameter option effectively ruins the model for tapping when the model is used as output for machine code generation.
This happened here once, but fortunately it was on a relatively small part which hadn't been finished yet. But for anodized parts, tapping is post-finish, the ano cost will join the other costs sitting at the bottom of the scrap barrel.

We have had the same problem several times with anything sent to laser. I think that in some cases their software picks up on the cosmetic thread in the model. You then end up getting parts back with nothing to tap. We have to be very careful on exactly what we send over to the laser/flame department. We either remove taps holes entirely from the model and machine them in later or remove cosmetic threads in the model.

removing material is almost always way easier then adding it :-)
If you're going to be sending your model out for fabrication I believe you're much safer using the "Tap Drill Diameter" option.
It yields exactly what it says.
The tap drill for a 1/2-13 hole is 27/64" (.4219)
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Frederick Law @ Tony Tieuli on Jun 28, 2019 9:43 AM
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Tap hole should be cut with a pilot hole for drill and tap.
Or no hole.
Laser/plasma/waterjet hole less then 1x material thickness is rough. Even with lead in.
Laser/plasma/waterjet hole could be tapered.
Laser/plasma create harden surface.
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Kevin Chandler @ Matt Juric on Jun 28, 2019 9:45 AM
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Matt Juric wrote:

removing material is almost always way easier then adding it :-)
That's why they invented reversible drills.
Just flip the switch and put the metal back in!
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Frederick Law @ Kevin Chandler on Jun 28, 2019 9:46 AM
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Always have a welder, always.
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Kevin Chandler Jun 28, 2019 1:13 PM
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Hello,

Also for the holes missing from the hole table, you didn't mention if these holes were located elsewhere on the model.

As you can see from the hole table posts others provided, a hole table contains its own X-Y axes and has its own origin.
A single hole table can't reference all holes if there are holes that can't use its X-Y/origin. This wouldn't make physical sense.

See Mr. Laban's post below.

Kevin
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Dave Laban @ Kevin Chandler on Jun 28, 2019 9:59 AM
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Kevin Chandler wrote:

A single hole table can't reference all holes if there are holes that can't use its X-Y/origin. This wouldn't make physical sense.

But you can have one hole table reference multiple origins
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Maha Nadarasa Jun 28, 2019 8:35 AM
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Introduction to the Hole Wizard - SOLIDWORKS 2018
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J. Mather Jun 28, 2019 9:56 AM
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1-9J0MW74 wrote:

1. I have used the hole wizard in the 3D model to show the holes.
2. When I create a hole table table in the drawing, it doesn't state which holes need to be threaded.
3. ... so they don't get annoyed and over quote me or something similar to that effect.
4. Can I create a drawing and add notes and arrows on which hole needs to have threads?
5. If I want to use M2.5 screw, what's the hole size I need to make?
6. I saw a chart on google but it said the clearance level have to be 2.9 which I quit didn't get.
7. Need help here guys.. recent grad.

This stuff should have been covered in school, but if you haven't worked out on the shop floor it can go in one ear and out the other (anyone entering this field should first have to work on the shop floor 4 yrs).

1. If you use the hole wizard correctly - it should take care of all of your questions. That is why I recommend that you Attach an example *.sldprt and *.slddrw
2. See #1.
3. What textbook did you use to learn thread nomenclature. I recommend Giesecke et al Technical Drafting with Engineering Graphics. The Machinery's Handbook is also a must have reference, but it can be a bit daunting for a beginner. Please tell me you did not sell your book back at the end of the semester. I have been teaching this stuff for 30 yrs and still cite specific references within.
4. See #3
5. See # 1 and 3. If you are using the Hole Wizard correctly it will make the correct Tap Drill Size when you choose and M2.5... …but on the topic of #3 if you specify an M2.5 you are likely going to annoy those on the shop floor. Broken thread taps kill more parts than probably any other operation. M2.5 is a very small tap. I recommend minimum M4 if you can. Maybe M3.5, but if you have never tapped an M2.5 - go out to the shop floor and ask a machinist to help you do this. Do it now! In your studies you should have learned about tap drill sizes. The tap drill size for an M2.5 is about 2mm (check the Machinery's Handbook on the topic - class of fit for threaded fasteners). If you make it say, 2.5mm - you will not have any material in which to cut the threads. Again, the Hole Wizard takes care of this for you. If you can Google it - the standard is probably already built into SolidWorks by default.
6. See #5. When you were in school you should have been taught to cite your sources of information. Cite the source of information (Google url link) for this "clearance level 2.9". I don't get it either and I have been doing this stuff for more than 40 yrs.
7. Attach an example *.sldprt and *.slddrw

I spent the first 7 or 8 years of my working life out on the shop floor.
I saw a lot of beginner designers/engineers send a lot of uniformed threaded fastener designs to the floor.
You really should be talking to the guys and gals on the shop floor - they love to show off what they know.
If you don't talk to them, they also love to show your boss what an idiot you are when you specify impossible holes.

Edit #6
I think I figured out the Ø2.9 clearance reference - the Hole Wizard will give you this too... … the clearance hole for mating part depending on the faster (and Fit) that you choose. This image should look very similar to something you surely saw in one of you classes (and should have been tested on).
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Kevin Chandler Jun 28, 2019 9:39 AM
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Hello,

Reading J. Mather's reminded me of another thing (or two) to mention on fastener sizes.
Mr. Mather is correct, M2.5 fasteners are tiny, but since you haven't upload any files (How can I attach a file to a forum post?), we can't tell if these are the appropriate size.

Depending on the fastener type, the tool size used to install/remove these is even smaller, especially if they're hex socket.
So, go as large as possible on your fasteners and minimize the number of sizes (pitch and length) wherever possible.

Another thing to check is fastener cost and availability for MX.5 sizes. The even sizes (M4, M3, etc.) may be more readily available or cheaper.

As mentioned, small tapped holes require small taps and depending on the material (along with the files, also not provided), taps are easily snapped in situ, especially if they are 4-fluters.

Kevin
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Kevin Chandler Jun 28, 2019 9:59 AM
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And have through holes wherever possible. Drill and tap, but at least through for drill.
If the drawing indicates a blind depth, but through is permissible, indicate such by note in the callout (and for which through is permissible).
This let's the programmer/machinist know they can apply their best judgment to that hole.

Blind holes suck (professionally typing).

Kevin
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Richard Gergely Jun 28, 2019 4:59 PM
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With injection mould tool design it's not uncommon to just send 3D assembly models. But they are toolmakers and they know what everything generally is.

The hole for tapping should be the tapping drill size which if correctly picked from hole wizard should give you the correct size.

Anyway..... say you only have a plate with holes in. Someone can't use common sense to know what is just a drilled hole or tapping hole.

There is a simple answer and it has been done for years.
Simple extrude a surface diameter of the tapped holes size cut to 3/4 circumference to the depth of tapping required.

So for example a M8 tapped hole will
1 - have the tapping hole modelled in @ 6.80 diameter to required depth
2 - surface 8mm diameter extruded to depth but only 3/4 of circumference to indicate tapping

Note.
The hole wizard for tapped holes should give you the correct depth for a blind hole and tapping to only need to use the first tap (no need for second or plug tap). This is based on 1.5 x diameter. Solidworks puts a small cushion in = 2 x diameter and roughly enough for just using first tap with bottoming tapped holes.

OK so the above methods works fine for just drilled holes and tapped holes. What it doesn't work for is reamed/boring/drilling
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Babar Firasat Jul 1, 2019 4:39 AM
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Wow, Thanks for all the answers. I found this very helpful. My problem was that how I would consider making the hole sizes for threaded screws and what size hole in solid works I should consider for the screw to fit inside the hole in real life.
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J. Mather @ Babar Firasat on Jul 1, 2019 7:19 AM
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It is SolidWorks or SOLIDWORKS. (I just tossed a bunch of resumes with “solid works”.)
Attach your file here.
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Frederick Law @ Babar Firasat on Jul 2, 2019 8:20 AM
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Babar Firasat wrote:

Wow, Thanks for all the answers. I found this very helpful. My problem was that how I would consider making the hole sizes for threaded screws and what size hole in solid works I should consider for the screw to fit inside the hole in real life.
Use hole wizard. Select the correct one.
Go through tutorial to learn how to use Hole Wizard.

Get "Machinery's Handbook" It has list of standard thread size, tap drill size and clearance hole size.
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Sending out part to be machined, how to show threaded holes?

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