17 Replies Latest reply on Mar 30, 2009 3:53 PM by 1-I7AP5K

    Picking Order

    Karl Zemlin
      I am endlessly getting hidden edges selected when I try to pick a face. I certainly want the ability to select hidden objects, but it seems odd that a hidden edge would be the first choice when it has to drive through a surface to get there.

      Then, if I right-click on the surface to get the SELECT OTHER dialog, the fricking surface is selected and not in the list. If doing a mate, for example, and I'm headed for the Select Other dialog and the elusive face highlights - rather than picking Select Other, I hit the green OK - but that isn't it.

      Why does it need to be so counterintuitive? As a long time Pro/E user, I am constantly amazed by how long it takes to get my work done in SW.
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          Chris Serran
          Go to Tools-Options-Display/Selection and under Selection of hidden edges uncheck "Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes"
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            Chris Serran
            Disregard my post, missed your comment "I certainly want the ability to select hidden objects"
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              Josh Brady
              I agree with Chris. The most intuitive way is to un-check "Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes". Once you've done that, there are two ways to easily select hidden things in SW.

              One is to enable "Select through transparency". Then (assuming you are working in an assembly) you can right-click on a component and choose "Change transparency". It will make that component transparent and you can pick things through it.

              The other is a feature of "Select Other" that way too few people know about. It works in parts and assemblies, although it doesn't work in drawings. You should totally ignore the popup box with the face list. While "Select Other" is active, any face you right-click on is temporarily hidden in the model. Just keep right-clicking on any faces that are "in the way" and very quickly you'll get to what you were looking for.
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                  Karl Zemlin
                  OK, so there are work-arounds - but can anyone explain the LOGIC behind this behavior?

                  If I UNDERSTOOD what SolidQuirks was doing, then I'd have an easier time working with it. As it is, it just seems completely bass-ackwards.

                  I'm not a noob to solids. I started solid modeling in 1987 (when 8MB was a lot of RAM) and have been totally 3D since.
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                  Josh Brady
                  I'm not sure what you mean by workarounds. Setting the system options to behave like you want them to is not a workaround. The logic is this:

                  The entire purpose of the checkbox "Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes" is to let you "drive through" the faces and give priority to edges that are hidden by it. Otherwise, how the heck would you select the hidden edges?

                  How would you suggest for this to work? As a non-noob, you must have some idea of the "proper" (for you) operation. There may be a combination of options that works for you.
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                      Karl Zemlin
                      PTC's 'Query Select' works great.
                      left click on what you want to pick. Whatever is on the top of the stack is selected. If that's not what you want, right clicking will drive down through all the entities in the area until you get what you want.

                      Josh Brady wrote:

                       

                      I'm not sure what you mean by workarounds. Setting the system options to behave like you want them to is not a workaround. The logic is this:

                      The entire purpose of the checkbox "Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes" is to let you "drive through" the faces and give priority to edges that are hidden by it. Otherwise, how the heck would you select the hidden edges?

                      IMHO, "Allowing" the selection of hidden edges doesn't mean they should be selected first. By work-arounds, I mean that you have to change the transparency of an item before you can select through it - Having to change system options depending on what you want to select - having to use filters becaose SW will not select the thing YOU HAVE YOUR CURSOR ON.

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                          Mark Kaiser
                          Karl,

                          If you understand all the SW options and still don't like how it works, you might want to become familar with the enhancement request program or Brainstorm website (keep hearing it's going to be up soon). Places for new ideas.

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                        Josh Brady
                        OK, now we're getting somewhere.

                        You don't have to change system options every time. You don't have to have "Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes" checked to select hidden edges with Select Other. IMHO, that checkbox is useless. My options are always set to

                        (checked)Allow selection in HLV and wireframe
                        (un-checked) Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes

                        Here is EXACTLY what you need to do:

                        1. Follow instructions in Chris's post. (Have you tried it yet?) This will prevent you from "accidentally" selecting edges behind
                        2. After you do step 1 above (have you done that yet?) SolidWorks' "Select Other" works almost exactly as you've described "Query Select". Left click on what you want to pick. Whatever is on top of the stack is selected. If that's not what you want, right-click and choose "Select Other". Right-clicking will make any entity "disappear" so you can see everything behind it and pick what you want. As soon as you make a left-click pick, visibility of everything is restored.

                        If you want, you can quit reading here.


                        IMHO, perhaps next time you have an issue, you might approach it with the possibility in mind that you are ignorant of a certain aspect of the software. Ignorance is not a bad thing. Ignorance with a proper attitude gets lots of help and helps you become less ignorant. Blaming problems caused by your ignorance on the software just makes you look like a moron. I'm not saying SW doesn't have issues. Far from it. But working with solids since 1987 does not automatically mean you know what you're doing on every single solids package.
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                          Kelvin Lamport

                           

                          PTC's 'Query Select' works great.
                          left click on what you want to pick. Whatever is on the top of the stack is selected. If that's not what you want, right clicking will drive down through all the entities in the area until you get what you want.

                          But if the hidden edge isn't below the initial click, it won't be in the stack.

                          Just because you are used to the Pro/E way doesn't make it the best or only way, even if it is a very good way.
                          SW used to have something similar to the Query Select, but IMO, improved it to the current Select Other tool. That tool removes the selected face to allow direct selection of any element without having to drill down through a stack of unwanted ones.

                           

                          IMHO, "Allowing" the selection of hidden edges doesn't mean they should be selected first.

                          You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I agree with Josh; that's exactly what it should (and does) mean. If an edge is highlighted move off slightly to select the upper face. Simple!

                          I never use the "Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes". I find it much easier to use Select Other, or rotate to see the element, or hit the Wireframe or HLV display mode.

                           

                          Having to change system options depending on what you want to select - having to use filters becaose SW will not select the thing YOU HAVE YOUR CURSOR ON.

                          I never use the selection filter or have any pre-set. No need to. I find my cursor does "select the thing YOU HAVE YOUR CURSOR ON."

                          BTW, there's no need to shout.
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                            Josh Brady
                            Another option you probably don't know anything about is "Dynamic highlight from graphics view". You probably want to turn that on unless you have a really slow PC or a gamer card. Dynamic highlight will highlight in the model area whatever would be picked if you were to left-click in that spot. I can certainly see how someone would go crazy with that option turned off and "Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes" turned on. You would never know what you were about to pick!

                            Also, SW (still) has a tendency to turn off dynamic highlight when you import an IGES file of any complexity. That is a true PITA.
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                                Karl Zemlin
                                I've tried the dymamic highlight, but SW is slow enough as it is, and that just drags things down slower. I don't have a slow machine, but I HATE waiting on my computer (I'm NOT shouting, BWT, just emphasizing ).

                                OK - I've changed one of my selection options which might make things behave more like I want them to - I disabled Allow selection in HLR and shaded modes under the selection of hidden edges.

                                Generally anything that says ALLOW, I enable - I don't want to be limited in what I do, but if SW is going to pick hidden edges first (I don't think you can ever convince me that it makes sense to do that), then I'll turn that off and know that I'll have to go to wireframe or HLV to select hidden stuff. I also have enable selection through transparency enabled already. I'll report back after I've worked with this for a while.
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                                Josh Brady
                                I think maybe interpreting "allow" (or "enable" or "permit" or any of those type words ) in that way may be giving too much credit to the linguistic capabilities of whoever puts the names with the options. ;-)
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                                    Karl Zemlin

                                    Josh Brady wrote:

                                     

                                    I think maybe interpreting "allow" (or "enable" or "permit" or any of those type words ) in that way may be giving too much credit to the linguistic capabilities of whoever puts the names with the options. ;-)

                                    I was thinking the same thing - the issue I have might not be with the function, so much as the words used to describe it.
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                                        as a long-time ProE user, i thought the problem with selecting faces that are right under a mouse arrow to be quite frustrating.

                                        I heard from a collegue that holding down the shift key when selecting will cause the front-most item to be selected.

                                        tried it - worked great
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                                            I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with Karl. This is a very frustrating problem and it makes no sense for the program to select hidden edges instead of a visible face. And why does the problem suddenly disappear if I zoom in? If the program is only able to select hidden edges when zoomed out, why is it unable to select them when zoomed in? Bizarre

                                            By the way, unchecking 'Allow selection in HLR...' doesn't seem to make any difference at all.