16 Replies Latest reply on Feb 17, 2019 12:29 PM by Adrian Velazquez

    x-shape questions?????

    Bryan Lagrange

      I see Solidworks has a new browser base modeler X-shape. I have a couple questions:


      What's the differnce between X shape and solidworks industrial designer (besides browser base)? Seem to be the same tool.


      From reading the blog post X-shape has bidrection interoperability with SolidWorks desktop and SolidWorks X design. Does X design have this?

      If not...it should.

      x shape.JPG


      Thank you

        • Re: x-shape questions?????
          Paul Salvador

          Bryan,.. don't know what the differences are,.. other than, another indirect SubD carrot waving on a stick and it's runs within a Browser..  and it looks like the blog on this was posted yesterday.. and they will be reviewing it this Tues?

          SOLIDWORKS xShape - Where Possibility Really Does Take Shape

          • Re: x-shape questions?????
            Kevin Quigley

            SolidWorks tweeted that blog post out earlier, so of course I jumped straight in the link  


            OK here's the thing. They claim interoperability with desktop SolidWorks. But that covers a lot of areas.  I mean, a STEP file is interoperable. But lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say it does give full bidirectional interoperability. So the issue is then, what does this give me that other solutions don't?


            I don't know. I personally doubt it offers anything for us. I doubt it gives anything like tree level editability. The screenshots, to be frank, are rubbish. I just fail to understand why SolidWorks don't reach out to their specialist user base when developing this stuff. We have used sub d workflows for pushing 10 years now. We have had TSplines since version 1. We have Fusion360. We use Power Surfacing inside SolidWorks, we bought into Creo last year simply because it has fantastic sub d workflows in the base package. Hell, we were even in the very earliest test base for xDesign!


            I tried to see SolidworksIndustrialDesign years ago when that was launched. Yet, years on, no reseller here knows it. When I asked for a demo I was offered a webinar from a product specialist in Europe. When we finally saw it in the flesh at Develop3D Live on the SolidWorks stand, the guy demoing it could barely open and close the app. it was £2300 ayear to subscribe to. So, yes. I am sceptical.


            like Isaid the key point is...what can it do for me that my existing workflows don't? I await to hear the feedback on Tuesday.

              • Re: x-shape questions?????
                Jeff Mowry

                Similar here---so many things have come and gone, whether under the banner of 3DExperience or others.  I inquired after one of them several years back (don't remember the name, was supposed to help with documentation, manuals, etc.) and the cost was greater than the cost for core SolidWorks!  Why?  That immediately limits the potential customer base to only a few who specialize in documentation/manual creation.  And with a tiny customer base, the product is more likely to dry up and blow away to join the very long line of forgotten half-hearted efforts to help the core user base.


                As you say, Kevin, why not reach out to the specialist user base when cooking up these concoctions?  At least get feedback on general directions (early in development) and then follow the recommended guidance by such user base?  Make sure costs aren't pulled out of the air at the last minute, but guided by what the target base would be willing to pay for such a thing.


                I'm an industrial designer.  I design stuff that real people can decide to purchase or to ignore, and the stuff I design often competes against other things that other designers have developed.  If cost isn't one of the primary drivers of development from the first day, the final product is very likely to drift into a price range that simply cannot be sustained by the market---and immediately fail.


                This appears to be lacking in the SolidWorks arena.  Creating sub-set, add-on applications meant to supplement/compliment the SolidWorks core software---that costs more than SolidWorks core---is necessarily a failure, right out of the box.  Why?  Because the nature of a supplement/compliment is to support the main gig---meaning it's feature focus is deeper, but more narrow than the core---ultimately meaning its ROI is much more sensitive to high costs.  High costs in this arena cannot yield sustained sales, so these types of apps die off at a rate approaching 100%.

                  • Re: x-shape questions?????
                    Kevin Quigley

                    Agreed. When it comes to sub d workflows you either get state of the art polygonal tools like Modo to create forms, then translate that into NURBS systems (which can be done quite easily these days), or you built the toolset into the base modelling products. This is exactly what PTC did with Creo, and Autodesk did with Fusion, and I believe now, Inventor.


                    sub d workflow is not about designing blobby crap like that joke iron in the screenshots. It is about subtle transitions, fine control over edge sharpness, fine control over localised surface features. It is then about tweaking forms to deliver production surfacing so you can control split lines. It is about enabling analysis tools to show surface quality.


                    If this tool is, say, £400 a year subscription I might take a punt. But I expect it will be more like £1500 a year...that is assuming it ever makes it to market. XDesign is still getting pushed, but you can't actually buy it or subscribe to it as it is still under beta. If they actually make xShape available I'll try it, but I'll say it how it is, compared to existing tools we use.


                    Lets wait and see what gets said. If they don't advertise a detailed feature list and price structure then you know it is years off.

                    • Re: x-shape questions?????
                      Adrian Velazquez

                      I've been saying this since the first 3DX App (Mechanical Conceptual), this was 5 years ago. They dropped the ball every year since then, and haven't change the strategy.

                        • Re: x-shape questions?????
                          Anna Wood

                          All these are still small subsets of Catia v6 that Dassault desperately wants the SolidWorks user to transition to.


                          DS has not figured out how to create a product that we want, at a good price point, that will not cannibalize their high end enterprise software.


                          Not going to happen ever.  DS does not have a clue on how to develop and market software to their cash cow SolidWorks customer base.


                          xWhatevers are DOA...

                            • Re: x-shape questions?????
                              Paul Salvador

                              Anna,.. I think it's fair to say at this time,.. the SubD browser will be using a server on a hot air balloon (not the cloud)..


                              • Re: x-shape questions?????
                                Adrian Velazquez

                                Anna Wood wrote:


                                All these are still small subsets of Catia v6 that Dassault desperately wants the SolidWorks user to transition to.


                                Not sure they are that desperate, until they are free of charge for those of paying full subscription for Premium Solidworks products. At my company we're looking for a Cloud collaboration solution, but since there is no cost or compatibility advantages to the 3DX we have a lot of options to evaluate, if they offered a comprehensive transition or integration solution, we wouldn't even be looking at anything else.

                          • Re: x-shape questions?????
                            Mark Biasotti

                            Just watched the video from today's presentation. I'm not usually inclined to be critical to my former colleagues (and friends) but right off the bat: you design the keypad first then design the shape around it? What designer in this universe would seriously ever design a remote control that way? That was embarrassing!

                            Kevin, that is proof enough that they did not reach out.

                          • Re: x-shape questions?????
                            Kevin Quigley

                            One other mini rant, sorry.


                            That screenshot of the blog text. That first line is total nonsense. Are they seriously suggesting no other system does this. looking at our current installed apps...


                            PTC Creo...Freestyle, sub d modelling as a feature tree item.

                            SolidWorks, with the Power Surfacing plug in, ditto.

                            Autodesk Fusion 360, ditto

                            Vectorworks (AEC app that is built on parasolid) has sub d workflows.

                            Shark FX, built in sub d workflow

                            Rhino 7 WIP, built in sub d workflow


                            so, yeah, whoever wrote that needs to consider that people actually wanting to use this stuff, are more than likely already doing so. Don't treat us like idiots.