¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Good luck with your upcoming argument!
I don't have a specific instance to relate, but certainly find myself in this situation from time to time.
Usually it revolves around someone insisting that we don;t have the time or money to do it "right" in the first place.
Then, later into the project, we spend even more money and take even more time to resolve issues that could have been avoided.
Richard Ahlgrim wrote:
Usually it revolves around someone insisting that we don;t have the time or money to do it "right" in the first place.
Many years ago we used to joke about this by saying our motto was "we do it nice because we do it twice"
Chris Saller wrote:
Seems to me your company is trying to keep the cost way down, thus why the thickness is all over the place?
Generally true. I think the only time we've ever rejected material was the plywood that one of our PMs purchased from China to try and save as much as possible. The sheets were de-laminating right after we snapped the bands on the bunks.
Usually we can rely on the thickness being consistent. Our hard plywood is usually at or really close to its nominal size, and the soft plywood is usually exactly 1/32" less than nominal. lately this hasn't been the case.
Bill Lacey wrote:
So I'm just sitting here, smiling, waiting, eager for the opportunity to get into it with him and upper management about why they need to get out of my way and let me do what I need to do to eliminate this problem. I've never wanted to get into a verbal fight so much prior to this. And I honestly can't wait.
I read this and laughed out loud - loudly.
I have seen plywood from China. Not my first choice.
I hear you Bill. We have this argument all the time. I told them we can make it to the thickness that you specify but need to standardized on the thickness so we can have a library of assemblies ready to go. We do good for a few months but they will change supplier because they are cheaper and the thickness changes. Drawers do not line up and the drawer faces have to big of a gap. Our biggest thing right now is slides. They have changed suppliers three different times. They all say they match all the other slide dimensions till we go and assemble. I usually send the e-mail out and give to head of design with my supporting e-mails and sit back and listen till I blow up inside.
At one job, everyday I just keep thinking about how to piss off one of the coworker.
Had a few yelling and screaming. That coworker did that to the owner and his sister also. There is only 4 of us.
You need a QC department and it will be ugly. Since nobody at your place care about what they're doing.
Make it ISO9000 and get rid of half the people.
You need to sit down with management and get the material sort out. If they want to listen.
If not, just have fun and watch the firework.
Oh boy, don't even get me started on slides and hardware. I could write a book about the headaches that has caused us.
Ever look forward to a fight or argument at work?
No.
"Winning" is not an option. Losing some or losing more are the available opportunities from a fight at work.
Bill Lacey wrote:
Many years ago we used to joke about this by saying our motto was "we do it nice because we do it twice"
I like that. On the other end of the spectrum this phrase gets uttered a lot, "Spending $500 to save $50".
Ah, the old "penny wise and pound foolish" saying.
At some point, any result from a fight is a win.
I'm not talking about physical fight
I'm not looking at it as a win or loss. This is more of a "do it the right way or do it the wrong way" kind of thing in my eyes. I know how to do this the right way. We've done it before with a tremendous amount of success. During my hiatus here (2014-2017) they stopped doing it the right way because no one knew how to maintain it. Now that I'm back, I'm trying to get them back on track. It's been a struggle though.
In practical professional terms, there is progress and lack thereof. If you had to butt heads in the first place, it is because you are not in charge. Convincing others in the context of a fight or argument can win the battle and lose the war. Being a source of office friction can effect performance reviews, raises, and HR issues. Loss of respect from coworkers can also solve this issue today while making future issues larger and more explosive.
Winners don't fight. At work, winners generate profit.
That's good. I am advising a level head, with clear statements like your reply post here. Have historical evidence, procedures, and proposals, not arguments. Make it clear that your intent is to solve problems, not cause them. Your reply here assures me more that you are interested in solutions, not the engagement.
Work is neither social media nor politics.
Situations like the one I mentioned above are good examples to show them that what I want to do works and saves the company money. They have a hard time seeing the benefit of modeling "the hard way" (i.e. parametric) versus doing it "the easy way" (i.e. static) They (being upper management) see me as being confrontational and difficult to work with only because I don't/won't tell them what they want to hear. I don't automatically side with them because I like to see things from every angle and make the best choice for the company as a whole. My decisions and choices will not usually offer a huge savings or profit up front, but over time we will reap the rewards.
Another example is when we have to re-use a design by making it wider, or taller, or longer to sell it as an option. I model everything parametrically so when I have to do this it takes me all of 10-15 minutes to have a new model and drawing to go along with it. Everyone else has been building their models statically so they have to manually change every part and feature when a change is needed. It usually takes them about as long as it took for the initial model to be made. It may have taken me a few extra hours to add the parametric abilities up front, but we save hours upon hours every time we made a derivative version. They don't see that and say things like "maybe we don't need everything to be parametric."
Maybe they don't need the extra cash in the bank.
Bill Lacey wrote:
. It may have taken me a few extra hours to add the parametric abilities up front, but we save hours upon hours every time we made a derivative version. They don't see that and say things like "maybe we don't need everything to be parametric."
That makes me thankful for the people I work for. It took them a little bit to see into how I work on a project and now there is no question, everything is parametric.... We work a lot with Interior Designers which can take a project to the next level of changes, somehow between the end customer and the Designer, they can come up with a lot of changes...
The most redesign in a project: 11.
Thanks God for Master Sketch.
One of our biggest clients would design their new locations to fit within existing structures. They were allowed to measure the existing spaces and make their initial architectural drawings but they weren't able to demo anything until the permits had been issued. Because of this, we never knew what we were going to have to work with once they cracked that shell. It was the proverbial "Pandora's Box" on every project. Therefore, we had to be able to adjust on the fly and still maintain accuracy. Everything was parametric and it saved us hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Everyone stayed out of our way and just let the "magic" happen without questioning it. They didn't know how we did what we did. Now they are starting to see what it takes and they think it's too complicated. In reality, they are just too lazy to understand it.
Unfortunately, we work for corporate America. It's their ball, their bat and their ball field. We either play by their rules or go find another team to play for. Pick and choose your battles wisely. You may win the battle, but still get fired in the end for ticking off the wrong person. I'm not advocating that you just let someone walk all over you but, you need to CYOA (cover you own a**) in such a fashion that no one in management can point their finger back at you for their poor decisions. With todays technology, emails stating your insight and warnings of pending failures in situations such as you have mentioned is a good way to CYOA. Carbon copy several different people when sending out emails. This way no one can deny that such a warning was sent. Don't ever delete someone's response. Make a folder inside of Outlook and store their responses the folder with their name on it.
There is a principle that exist throughout a majority of corporate America that states, "you don't need to understand the work that someone does to manage them, you just need to understand people". This is a load of bovine fecal matter. As management has become more distanced from manufacturing the problem you discussed has only gotten worse. I believe that every person in a company needs to spend at least two years of hands on experience within his or her specific field of expertise (manufacturing, engineering, design) before they are ever allowed to step into a office position. Now days more importance is placed on a having a four year degree than the knowledge acquired by someone that has been doing a specific job for thirty plus years and understands every aspect of that job. Over the 40 year span of my career as a tool and die maker and a tooling engineer, I witnessed the very same type of things you have mentioned. Managements inability to listen and heed warnings. If I may offer a word of wisdom to all, "as long as your paycheck clears at the end of the week, let management do their thing, and in the mean time, look for another team to play for." It may just save your sanity!
Sounds to me like your PM has pointy hair.
Awesome Dilbert reference!
Bill Lacey wrote:
They (being upper management) see me as being confrontational and difficult to work with only because I don't/won't tell them what they want to hear. I don't automatically side with them because I like to see things from every angle and make the best choice for the company as a whole. My decisions and choices will not usually offer a huge savings or profit up front, but over time we will reap the rewards.
"Yes" men destroyed a lot of companies, awesome to stand up to what you know works, I do the same here, but at the same time we can't be boned headed either. Listen, Evaluate, Plan and Execute....
There are ways around that. Better quality control of the material. You can purchase quality Birch plywood with better control of thickness, but it will cost. Seems to me your company is trying to keep the cost way down, thus why the thickness is all over the place?
Your supplier should be able to tell you what the thickness should be. They have a general idea.