27 Replies Latest reply on Oct 5, 2018 8:22 AM by Dennis Dohogne

    How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?

    Chris Canterbury

      For this part, the feature must be measured relative to a particular corner.  My thought was to make two sides datum features, an dim from there.

       

      Is there a symbol that denotes a specific feature/point/edge as the point from which to measure for inspection?

        • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
          Doug Seibel

          Are you not familiar with GDT (Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing)?

          • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
            Kevin Chandler

            Chris Canterbury wrote:

             

            For this part, the feature must be measured relative to a particular corner. My thought was to make two sides datum features, an dim from there.

             

            Is there a symbol that denotes a specific feature/point/edge as the point from which to measure for inspection?

            It looks like you forgot to add some detail...

            How about "Dimension origin"?

            And to second Mr. Seibel, are you familiar with GD&T? (BTW: "kinda" qualifies as zero )

             

            Kevin

            • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
              James Riddell

              Using GD&T (ANSI Y14.5) appropriately is what you need here.  There is no limit to the datums you may define to locate features (but don't go crazy and defer to your QC department and listen to the shop & assembly people).

               

              I think a copy of the standard is only about $50 and there are any number of textbooks on how to apply the call-outs.

              • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                Dwight Livingston

                Chris

                 

                Use a dimension origin (ASME Y14.5-2009 2.6.1). Right click on an arrowhead to change it to a circle.

                 

                Dwight

                 

                • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                  James Riddell

                  A picture is worth a thousand words here.

                  • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                    Jim Steinmeyer

                    Here comes a whole can of worms.

                     

                         If the person doing the drawing does not know that an open circle on the drawing means that point is the location to measure from, do we expect those in the shop to know it? I will admit I didn't. The same goes for using GD&T. Or for weld symbols for that matter.

                    I understand that we use standard conventions to convey our meanings and de-clutter the drawings. But if we have to go to the shop and explain did we do any good?

                         Just for reference, 2 years ago I got a stern tongue lashing from the owner of the company because I used a standard front, top and right projected views to show how to form a part and naturally the guys bent it backwards. He didn't care what tricks we did at other places, we can't expect people to know those things without notes here. Of course that may not help if we use English.

                      • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                        Tony Tieuli

                        Jim Steinmeyer wrote:

                         

                        Here comes a whole can of worms.

                         

                        If the person doing the drawing does not know that an open circle on the drawing means that point is the location to measure from, do we expect those in the shop to know it? I will admit I didn't. The same goes for using GD&T. Or for weld symbols for that matter.

                        I understand that we use standard conventions to convey our meanings and de-clutter the drawings. But if we have to go to the shop and explain did we do any good?

                        Just for reference, 2 years ago I got a stern tongue lashing from the owner of the company because I used a standard front, top and right projected views to show how to form a part and naturally the guys bent it backwards. He didn't care what tricks we did at other places, we can't expect people to know those things without notes here. Of course that may not help if we use English.

                        Methinks the guys on the shop floor and maybe the company owner, could benefit from a basic blueprint reading course. (Does anyone call them blueprints anymore?)

                        Of course I'm not the one who has to tell the company owner that.

                        It would save the owner lots of scrap and re-work money if his employees could read a basic drawing!

                          • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                            Danny Edwards

                            Tony Tieuli wrote:

                             

                            Jim Steinmeyer wrote:

                             

                            Here comes a whole can of worms.

                             

                            If the person doing the drawing does not know that an open circle on the drawing means that point is the location to measure from, do we expect those in the shop to know it? I will admit I didn't. The same goes for using GD&T. Or for weld symbols for that matter.

                            I understand that we use standard conventions to convey our meanings and de-clutter the drawings. But if we have to go to the shop and explain did we do any good?

                            Just for reference, 2 years ago I got a stern tongue lashing from the owner of the company because I used a standard front, top and right projected views to show how to form a part and naturally the guys bent it backwards. He didn't care what tricks we did at other places, we can't expect people to know those things without notes here. Of course that may not help if we use English.

                            Methinks the guys on the shop floor and maybe the company owner, could benefit from a basic blueprint reading course. (Does anyone call them blueprints anymore?)

                            Of course I'm not the one who has to tell the company owner that.

                            It would save the owner lots of scrap and re-work money if his employees could read a basic drawing!

                            No matter how well we make drawings and all the views and notes we put on our drawings they still bend the parts backwards. I try to make it where it is noticeable on what makes it left or right handed. But when it comes down to it they still will mess it up.

                              • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                                Dennis Dohogne

                                Danny Edwards wrote:

                                 

                                Tony Tieuli wrote:

                                 

                                Jim Steinmeyer wrote:

                                 

                                Here comes a whole can of worms.

                                 

                                If the person doing the drawing does not know that an open circle on the drawing means that point is the location to measure from, do we expect those in the shop to know it? I will admit I didn't. The same goes for using GD&T. Or for weld symbols for that matter.

                                I understand that we use standard conventions to convey our meanings and de-clutter the drawings. But if we have to go to the shop and explain did we do any good?

                                Just for reference, 2 years ago I got a stern tongue lashing from the owner of the company because I used a standard front, top and right projected views to show how to form a part and naturally the guys bent it backwards. He didn't care what tricks we did at other places, we can't expect people to know those things without notes here. Of course that may not help if we use English.

                                Methinks the guys on the shop floor and maybe the company owner, could benefit from a basic blueprint reading course. (Does anyone call them blueprints anymore?)

                                Of course I'm not the one who has to tell the company owner that.

                                It would save the owner lots of scrap and re-work money if his employees could read a basic drawing!

                                No matter how well we make drawings and all the views and notes we put on our drawings they still bend the parts backwards. I try to make it where it is noticeable on what makes it left or right handed. But when it comes down to it they still will mess it up.

                                I have been suggesting an easy way to show the bends in progressive steps for several years through the Top Ten list and as this Enhancement Request: 1-5044606302 (Go vote for it, even though it says Closed they will re-open it if it gets enough traffic.).  These steps can then be easily animated:  Flat -> Bend 1 -> Bend 2 -> Bend 3 -> ... Last Bend.  Then it would be easy to show a manufacturing drawing that makes the order (and orientation) of the bends.  With the animation we could even attach a video of these progressions.  Obviously the idea is to provide irrefutable information as to how to make the part CORRECTLY.

                                 

                                I have done this (without the animation) by making separate configurations: Flat, First Bend, Second Bend, etc., with successive configurations just unsuppressing the next bend.  I think if the bends are ordered as you want them then it would be nice if we could hit a button to automatically make these configurations in this order.  Probably someone at #TASK could write a macro to do this, but with all due respect to them I think this should be built-in to basic SWX.

                                  • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                                    Jim Steinmeyer

                                    Dennis Dohogne wrote:

                                     

                                    I have been suggesting an easy way to show the bends in progressive steps for several years through the Top Ten list and as this Enhancement Request: 1-5044606302 (Go vote for it, even though it says Closed they will re-open it if it gets enough traffic.). These steps can then be easily animated: Flat -> Bend 1 -> Bend 2 -> Bend 3 -> ... Last Bend. Then it would be easy to show a manufacturing drawing that makes the order (and orientation) of the bends. With the animation we could even attach a video of these progressions. Obviously the idea is to provide irrefutable information as to how to make the part CORRECTLY.

                                     

                                    I have done this (without the animation) by making separate configurations: Flat, First Bend, Second Bend, etc., with successive configurations just unsuppressing the next bend. I think if the bends are ordered as you want them then it would be nice if we could hit a button to automatically make these configurations in this order. Probably someone at #TASK could write a macro to do this, but with all due respect to them I think this should be built-in to basic SWX.

                                    I tried but even with copy and paste the search in the Knowledge base was unable to locate it.

                                    Of course you can't put an animation on a sheet of paper (as advanced as we are likely to get) and our guys would still need a note telling them which end of the sheet they were looking at if you gave them a formed view at any of the stages. At least that is what the boss insisted be done.

                                      • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                                        Dennis Dohogne

                                        Jim Steinmeyer wrote:

                                         

                                        Dennis Dohogne wrote:

                                         

                                        I have been suggesting an easy way to show the bends in progressive steps for several years through the Top Ten list and as this Enhancement Request: 1-5044606302 (Go vote for it, even though it says Closed they will re-open it if it gets enough traffic.). These steps can then be easily animated: Flat -> Bend 1 -> Bend 2 -> Bend 3 -> ... Last Bend. Then it would be easy to show a manufacturing drawing that makes the order (and orientation) of the bends. With the animation we could even attach a video of these progressions. Obviously the idea is to provide irrefutable information as to how to make the part CORRECTLY.

                                         

                                        I have done this (without the animation) by making separate configurations: Flat, First Bend, Second Bend, etc., with successive configurations just unsuppressing the next bend. I think if the bends are ordered as you want them then it would be nice if we could hit a button to automatically make these configurations in this order. Probably someone at #TASK could write a macro to do this, but with all due respect to them I think this should be built-in to basic SWX.

                                        I tried but even with copy and paste the search in the Knowledge base was unable to locate it.

                                        Of course you can't put an animation on a sheet of paper (as advanced as we are likely to get) and our guys would still need a note telling them which end of the sheet they were looking at if you gave them a formed view at any of the stages. At least that is what the boss insisted be done.

                                        1. I wish they would hurry up and fix and release the overhauled ER/SPR/KB system!!  IT SUCKS!

                                         

                                        Try searching for SPR 548475.  That should do it.  The ER number I referenced apparently is my own and those aren't searchable. (See 1. above!)

                                        • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                                          Dan Pihlaja

                                          OK......Jim, that isn't an official enhancement request yet.   Dennis Dohogne, if it says closed under your enhancement requests, then it has been turned into an SPR (or at least linked to one).

                                           

                                          See the example below:

                                          My ER 1-15178984636, would be completely inaccessible to anyone except my VAR, SW and me.

                                           

                                          If I open that ER, then it shows my what SPR it is linked to:

                                           

                                          THAT is what you need to vote for.

                                    • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                                      Jim Steinmeyer

                                      Tony Tieuli wrote:

                                       

                                      Jim Steinmeyer wrote:

                                      Here comes a whole can of worms.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Methinks the guys on the shop floor and maybe the company owner, could benefit from a basic blueprint reading course. (Does anyone call them blueprints anymore?)

                                      Of course I'm not the one who has to tell the company owner that.

                                      It would save the owner lots of scrap and re-work money if his employees could read a basic drawing!

                                      I would totally agree with you. Unfortunately in many companies shop guys are looked at more as a commodity than as an asset.

                                    • Re: How do I specify measure from THIS corner, not the other way?
                                      Shawn Stugard

                                      How about a note like this on an ISO view?