18 Replies Latest reply on Nov 12, 2018 8:16 AM by Chris Rose

    Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions

    Jeffrey Model

      I'm guessing this should be directed to Brian Hillner?

       

      The new Nvidia architecture sounds pretty awesome. To go along with Nvidia's announcements, I had a few questions regarding it support in future service packs:

      1. When can we expect support?
      2. Will both the GTX 20-series and the Quadro RTX be supported?
      3. Any early hints at the kind of performance boost we could expect on a single GPU setup?
      4. In systems with a mix of Turing and Pascal GPUs, what kind of support should we expect to see?

       

      Thanks,

      --Jeff

        • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
          Damir Galic

          In the video he mentioned that 2080 will have 10 times more raytraces per time interval than currently fastest 1080ti. That probably means 10 times faster rendering?

          • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
            Craig Girvan

            bI would assume that we wont really know the answer to most of these questions until after the cards are out.

             

            Howerver the new RTX cards appear to just be the next step up from the GTX 10xx range so I would not expect them to be 'certified' cards for Solidworks as the 1070/1080 etc were not supported. Although that doesn't mean they won't work in some capacity.

             

            I'm also always sceptical when companies say 5x or 10x faster at A or B task as this usually is only for 1 particular task. Hopefully there will be a good jump in performance though.

             

            Will be more interesting to see how the Quadro RTX cards perform.

              • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                Jeffrey Model

                It's typical for companies like Dassault to be given access to new hardware (and its associated software/APIs) well in advance of its commercial release. That's how companies like Nvidia are able to give demos of third party software at launch.

                 

                The GeForce 20 series won't be certified. I made the mistake of buying a certified card - once. The certified drivers and hardware offer literally zero benefit for Visualize, which doesn't make use of any of those restricted functions. Solidworks uses them for nothing other than the gimmicky RealView. Not exactly a big loss there.

              • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                Frederick Law

                Current GPU scale better then CPU.  GPU use huge amount of cores to get the calculation done.  Increasing core amount and efficiency is very noticable with performance.  Calculating graphic is huge amount of array transformation, highly repetitive and predictable.  It will be pretty close to their claim.

                We may not see much improvement from CAD.  Unless CAD off load some calculation to GPU.  We are more limited by CPU.

                How much raytracing is done GPU in CAD?  I guess non currently.

                Video games had off load graphic and physics to GPU for a while.  CAD could benefit on rendering and simulation with GPU also.

                  • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                    Wojciech Paterski

                    We need A company to make breakthrough and make CPU based on the structure of GPU and how it works:)

                      • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                        Frederick Law

                        Wojciech Paterski wrote:

                         

                        We need A company to make breakthrough and make CPU based on the structure of GPU and how it works:)

                        Not CPU breakthrough, OS.  We're burden down by the OS.  I think Windows still using 8 bits code that's why file path can only be 255 characters long.

                        PS4 is another RISC like nVidia GPU.  Intel is RISC emulating CISC.

                        Then our daily computer use is not as predictable and doesn't scale as well.

                      • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                        Jeffrey Model

                        If you set Visualize to GPU-only mode, nearly 100% of the computation is offloaded to the GPU. This is far and away the fastest mode for rendering. Similarly, if you use the GPU-enabled solvers in Dassault's various simulation packages, almost the entire job is run on the GPU. This has been the case for years.

                         

                        Performance will be directly in line with Nvidia's claims. The only issue here is that Nvidia didn't claim performance for full render jobs, they just claimed performance for certain render tasks. A new GPU that draws the menu bar 2000x faster certainly performs that task much more quickly, but that is a very tiny part of a render job and thus the render time would remain unchanged.

                         

                        And that's why I asked the question: How much improvement should we expect to see on render jobs given the huge improvement Nvidia is demonstrating on the various tasks?

                        • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                          Damir Galic

                          It's all about parallel processing. x86 architecture is linear processing.

                          I was really hoping that FPGA would eventually come into play and eventually replace x86...

                          But I still believe the future is in 3way transistors with 3d cubal chips. Performance on those could be squared.

                            • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                              Frederick Law

                              Problem is not all task can be run in parallel.  Some task require results from previous tasks and CPU need to wait.

                              Windows is based on old Intel CPU command set.  Intel tried to change it and failed.  So current Intel emulate old command set so Windows can run.

                              I don't know why MS and Intel still hold on to the old set.  Windows had been ported to other CPU already.  Program running in Windows don't care what hardware its running on.

                                • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                                  Damir Galic

                                  That's why I was talking about fpga.

                                  x86 has instructions such as A+B=C or A*B=C

                                  So if you would want to do (A+B)*C=D it would take 2 computer cycles.

                                  While with FPGA you can generate your own instruction that does (A+B)*C=D in 1 cycle. In fact you can do A*B*C*D/E+F+G+D=Z in 1 cycle. It's kind of parallel processing... but in reality is that multiple transistors get triggered at the same time in 1 cycle that produce that operation. There is ofcourse limitation to how deep the recursion goes but even that can be bypassed by supplying power somewhere in the middle of recursion tree.

                                  I think CUDA cores work like FPGA because you can supposedly program them how they operate.

                            • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                              Damir Galic

                              Also I think the future of computer graphics is graphics with no textures. Instead of reading bunch of textures from memory the cpu would generate them instead which would produce infinite detail. So if you would zoom in to texture that has 600x600 pixels it would start loosing detail, while on computer generated texture the detail would be generated as you zoom in. Basically generating any textures would be faster than reading from memory.

                              mark my words. it will happen.

                              • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                                Brian Hillner

                                Glad to see several people commenting on this forum thread!

                                NVIDIA's announcement is exciting for sure.

                                We are also waiting to understand their roadmap and if/when we can expect these new RTX cards to work with Iray (render engine within Visualize) or when we might be able to support the RTX raytracer as well.

                                Lots of moving pieces but hopefully we'll have some more definitive answers soon.

                                _Brian

                                  • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                                    Jeffrey Model

                                    Thanks for the answer, Brian. Sounds like quite a bit more work is required for Turing than was required for Volta.

                                     

                                    In a similar vein, are you planning to update the GPU performance table to reflect performance with the AI denoiser?

                                     

                                    And, lastly, am I correct in assuming that Visualize will run just fine on Turing cards even if it hasn't been updated to take advantage of the new RT chip?

                                      • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                                        Brian Hillner

                                        Yes - Visualize will run just fine, support and be accelerated by the new Turing cards (officially certified on the Quadro models: RTX8000, RTX6000, RTX5000). The date Visualize will support these new Turing chip generation cards has not yet been officially announced.

                                         

                                        I'm not sure of the exact performance gain comparing Pascal to the new Turing cards, but NVIDIA never disappoints in that area

                                         

                                        The SOLIDWORKS Certification team owns the Visualize GPU performance chart and will be making updates to it, also to reflect the Denoiser and Turing Quadro cards.

                                          • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                                            Alex Ji

                                            My office recently received a few RTX 20 series cards and I did some simple testing.

                                                               960x540 fps     1920x1080 offline sec

                                            1080 Ti       25.91                76

                                            Titan Z        24.62                80

                                            2080           36.06                55

                                            2080 Ti       49.25                42

                                            Roughly, 1080Ti = Titan Z, 2080 is 50% gain over 2080, and 2080 Ti is 100% gain over 1080 Ti. I do not believe this performance gain is purely based on GPU horsepower. 2080 Ti should be about 25% faster than 1080 Ti in gaming.

                                             

                                            1080 ti offline.jpg

                                            1080 ti viewport.jpg

                                            2080 offline.jpg2080 ti offline.jpg2080 ti viewport.jpg2080 viewport.jpgtitan z offline.jpgtitan z viewport.jpg

                                              • Re: Nvidia Turing/RTX Questions
                                                Chris Rose

                                                How much is the RTX Quadrow entry level (5000 I think likely to be in comparsion to the RTX 2070, RTX 2080 both 8 gb, the Quadro p2000 or P4000 as trying to work out what to put into a custom build like this

                                                 

                                                 

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                                                Is it better to keep the |I 9 or lower it to an 8 core I7 and up the Quadro to p4000 or a rtx 2070 gb