17 Replies Latest reply on Aug 20, 2018 4:20 PM by Tom Gagnon

    really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions

    Varun Sharma

      I'm been asked to model this pump but not to be totally exact with the features its more to get the main exterior features and dimensions as close as possible so we can fit this into a housing to see how it fits correctly. The thing is this drawing has alot of mission dimensions and not sure how I should go about approaching this design.

       

      Somebody told me to just copy and past the right plane image of how it looks an scale it the thing is the drawing gets so weird because the rear view is a totally different type of feature. I then thought to myself I can extrude certain features separately and then put them together as one piece at the end but the scaling of each image just gets too messy and confusing. Here is an architecture image of the pump. Please let me know how you would approach in modeling this because so many dimensions are missing is the whole issue

      Full image.JPG

        • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
          ömür tokman

          What is this drawing for?

          production?

          Render?

          Draw the engine part or download it from the internet.

          2018-08-18_11-45-54.png2018-08-18_11-47-53.png

          then draw the pump section and combine.

          2018-08-18_11-40-47.png

          2018-08-18_11-49-20.png

          For production this is a long and troublesome job.

          if only for visual or render.

          Draw the outer lines.

          • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
            ömür tokman

            pump sections are the same.

            Check this site.

            2018-08-18_12-02-45.png

            2018-08-18_12-00-56.png

            • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
              J. Mather

              Varun Sharma wrote:

              ... model this pump but not to be totally exact with the features its more to get the main exterior features and dimensions as close as possible so we can fit this into a housing to see how it fits correctly. The thing is this drawing has alot of mission dimensions and not sure how I should go about approaching this design.

              You are given a tremendous amount of information to model this for the intended purpose.

              Many designs start from only a poorly drawn "napkin sketch" with a couple of dimensions.

              Hand Sketch to Design.png

               

              You have the orthographic views  and enough dimensions to scale them.  Short of fully dimensioned individual part drawings - this is about as good as it gets. In fact, with the given information - your really only need one dimension.

               

              I would save images of each view and place them in individual sketches and scale (and position relative to a common datum).

              I would have ONLY the images on sketches by themselves so that they can be easily toggled on/off as needed.

              Then on separate sketches - sketch the features.

               

              Within an hour of effort you should have a pretty good model for the stated purpose.

              Pump Design.png

               

              Attach your *.sldprt attempt here if you run into trouble.

               

              I think that paradoxically - you have been given too much information and you are overwhelmed by all of the lines.

              Break the problem down into major boundaries like I have done for the motor and ignore the unnecessary detail lines.

              If you concentrate on only the major boundaries I think you will be impressed how far you can get in a relatively short period of time and effort.

              Hmmm, as I fool with this myself - I am revising the time down to 15-20 minutes once the first image is scaled.     I only need the Right Side and Front images (and don't really really need the Front image).

                • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                  Dan Pihlaja

                  J. Mather wrote:

                   

                  Varun Sharma wrote:

                  ... model this pump but not to be totally exact with the features its more to get the main exterior features and dimensions as close as possible so we can fit this into a housing to see how it fits correctly. The thing is this drawing has alot of mission dimensions and not sure how I should go about approaching this design.

                  You are given a tremendous amount of information to model this for the intended purpose.

                  Many designs start from only a poorly drawn "napkin sketch" with a couple of dimensions.

                  Hand Sketch to Design.png

                   

                  You have the orthographic views and enough dimensions to scale them. Short of fully dimensioned individual part drawings - this is about as good as it gets. In fact, with the given information - your really only need one dimension.

                   

                  I would save images of each view and place them in individual sketches and scale (and position relative to a common datum).

                  I would have ONLY the images on sketches by themselves so that they can be easily toggled on/off as needed.

                  Then on separate sketches - sketch the features.

                   

                  Within an hour of effort you should have a pretty good model for the stated purpose.

                  Pump Design.png

                   

                  Attach your *.sldprt attempt here if you run into trouble.

                   

                  I think that paradoxically - you have been given too much information and you are overwhelmed by all of the lines.

                  Break the problem down into major boundaries like I have done for the motor and ignore the unnecessary detail lines.

                  If you concentrate on only the major boundaries I think you will be impressed how far you can get in a relatively short period of time and effort.

                  Hmmm, as I fool with this myself - I am revising the time down to 15-20 minutes once the first image is scaled. I only need the Right Side and Front images (and don't really really need the Front image).

                  That is really cool!  I have never tried something like that!   Thanks for walking through how to do it!

                • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                  Mehdi Rezaei

                  Hi Varun,

                   

                  These kind of jobs are fairly simple but time consuming. If I were you, I would start by drawing a overall shape of the pump where you have at least one dimension. Then, take screenshot of three view, Front, Top, Right and overlay them in SOLIDWORKS part on top of the first 3D shape that you drawn first. To insert pictures, start a sketch on each plane respectively and then use Menu Tools > Sketch Tools > Sketch Picture. For each picture, take advantage of the first 3D model that you have and resize pictures to match the existing model.

                  In summary, you will have an overall shape of the pump and three overlaid pictures on three orientation front, top, right. Then, you can keep working on details.

                    • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                      Varun Sharma

                      yea I managed to get it done by taking each view and and placing them within the Right/Front/Top plane within solidworks. I got it to work but it took me the whole day at work. Its a new skill I learned so I cant complain but it is definitely tedious!

                       

                      My only issue when drawing this was getting each picture of the shop drawing to be symmetrical with each view within solid works. I had to do a lot of tough re aligning to make sure it would work in solidworks but is there a way to automatically have a picture symmetrical with the previous inserted pictured from a different plane? if I can do that quickly then doing these types of drawings are no issue at all

                    • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                      Varun Sharma

                      Here is what my final sketch looked like. I had to extrude different parts of the pump selectively and worked my through it all. It is not totally exact but it did come out pretty close i feel. please tell me how you guys feel about itNEW FINAL.JPG

                      • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                        David Nelson

                        To me for what you are doing it needs to be really simple to save time.  You need Height, width and length.  After that the location of the pump inlet and outlet.  Anything else is just fluff.  You have all those dimensions available to you.

                        • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                          James Riddell

                          Alas, estimation and approximation seem to be lost artforms.  There is sufficient information on that drawing to make a very close enveloping model that would even look very similar to the actual item.

                           

                          However, have you considered making a quick call or even sending an email to the manufacturer to see if they do have a step file?  Many will gratefully give that to you.

                            • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                              Varun Sharma

                              yes I did that initially and they did not have any CAD models or else I wouldnt even need to do this. But I am an entry level engineer and any extra tedious work I go through now will help me understand and improve my skills. I am in just a big learning experience right now so I dont mind to do extra work to improve my CAD skills

                                • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                                  John Pesaturo

                                  Varun, for an entry level engineer you are wise beyond your years. You seem to have a great attitude and it will only help you along your path. Keep up the good work ...

                                    • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                                      Varun Sharma

                                      Hey Thanks so much John, I feel so dumb at times because the guys I work with are all deep into engineering with years on me. I am trying to improve as much as I can immediately but they are so busy themselves they cant really explain things from a basic level and leave out so much details leaving me to slowly figure it out which is fine till I get up to speed I guess. (I work for a start up first day was 2 weeks ago). I love the grind but the only thing that gets me is the times when I feel lost. Hopefully I can get past the 90 day probationary period here. Its just tough learning how everything works at first because i'm paying attention to what positions are doing as well and not just my job.

                                       

                                      John, are you a mechanical engineer yourself?

                                    • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                                      Tom Gagnon

                                      My comments are likely too late because you have already completed your task acceptably. This is how I would approach it, in order of priority.

                                       

                                      1. Get authoritative useful data.

                                      Varun Sharma wrote:

                                       

                                      yes I did that initially and they did not have any CAD models

                                      Less+image.jpg

                                      Manufacturer lied to you if that's what they really said. They darned sure have CAD Models. They just will not share it with you. Perhaps they don't have any *available* CAD models that they are willing to provide to untrusted individuals, whether customer or not.

                                       

                                      This is my first option, to accept a useful component from manufacturer. Of course, this is not always available easily, or sometimes at all. Did you contact your Pentair sales representative to shake the tree with greater authority on your behalf, or did you directly contact the manufacturer yourself? Your sales rep should be able to get better results for you if you are paying him/her thousands of dollars.

                                       

                                      2. Interpret/Import authoritative data.

                                      What format is the document that you are given, which you shared here as a JPG image?

                                      If your source file was a PDF, AND its content was vectors, not pixelated images, then I would run it through a simple cheap utility that I have called Print2CAD, which can convert a PDF into DWG format. Results vary greatly, which is why I qualified the acceptable source inputs. Then I open the DWG file in DraftSight, and clean it up to make sure that scaled dimensions are correct at 1:1, intersections intersect, no gaps, no weird artifact entities, explode some things and join others, and so on. Then I save out separate DWG files with desired views isolated so that my intended origin and orientation is the origin and orientation of the view in the DWG view file, because it makes the next step so very much easier to place the origin where you will want it in a sketch. Then, I Insert > DXF/DWG... upon primary reference planes, and then either apply dimensions and relations or Lock all sketch objects or just apply Fully Define Sketch. Repeat for each reference view or plane. Then use for either reference or source into new sketches to create features from. If you have a clean PDF, I can run that upon it for you or examine its quality, and share its result back to you.

                                       

                                      Running Print2CAD upon pixelated images creates very ugly and mostly useless results, but they could be scaled properly and very very roughly used for aspect ratio or draft angle comparisons and such.

                                       

                                      3. Refer to authoritative data.

                                      If your source data format is indeed merely a JPG image, the same as you shared here, then others' helpful instructions to insert image portions onto planes and hand-trace into feature sketches is, to me, my last resort. From your results, it seems to have worked well and also provided a good learning experience for you.

                                       

                                      Comment:

                                      I think you are learning very well to begin with because you are asking the right questions to learn both industry practices as well as software functionality. Good job Varun.

                                        • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                                          Varun Sharma

                                          thank you, I'm more than certain they lied just to not release their drawings or core technology involved in the pumps maybe.  I called the sales rep directly and thats what they said. (Online chat with them)

                                           

                                          Im going to look over your explanation and study it for the next drawings I may have to do. Thank you so much for your reply. I really hate to be lost and idle..so when working I have an urge to see things get done so I am trying to figure it out the best I can.

                                    • Re: really need help in drawing this sketch with missing dimensions
                                      Paul Risley

                                      I know I am late to the party as well as others have been.

                                       

                                      For future reference another piece of advice I would give you is dig deeper into the reference documentation a company provides.

                                      Capture.JPG

                                      The above dimensional drawing came from the website that provides the "Architectual"  drawing you were showing in your original post. Typically companies have spec sheets/ cutlists that have simplified dimensional drawings of their products that will give you useful information without all of the fluff. In this case base dimensions along with a drawing further up that gives you clearance requirements for encasing the pump in case you have to.

                                       

                                      The advice you have been given has been pretty sound and good. I am just throwing my 2 pennies at this because most places don't want you spending a day designing or drawing something when the only thing that needs to be shown is will it fit or not.

                                       

                                      I am definitely not saying either of these drawings are perfect, I don't use these kinds of pumps in my designs. I do use hydraulic pumps and electric and hydraulic motors, which sometimes the models are not very easy to find or drawings for that matter.

                                       

                                      Having gone through this exercise now, the next time it will go a little faster. The most important question to ask when doing this kind of a drawing is "What is really important and what is not?"