19 Replies Latest reply on Oct 26, 2011 7:44 PM by Jeff Sweeney

    Is this where Rollback would be used?

    Jason Ebersole

      I'm trying to understand some basic real-world usage of SWPDME, and I'm not sure about best practices:

      In an oversimplified example, we want engineers to be able to checkout, modify, and check in documents. Documents will have three simple states; Approved --> Under change --> submit for approval --> (back to Approved).

      First, I am assuming you would want the system to require engineers to change state to "Under Change" before allowing Check out. Right? Engineer makes changes, checks back in and then changes state to "submit for Approval". Once in this state, an engineer cannot Check Out. A checker checks documents and changes state to "Approved." Pretty simple (assuming my first assumption is correct).

      What if:
      An Engineer changes state to "Under change" so he/she can check out, but then changes his/her mind. Undoing checkout is easy, but how do you get back to Approved? Allowing Rollback to Engineers seems messy, but I don't see any other way.

      Is there a better way to address this scenario?



        • Is this where Rollback would be used?
          Corey Hinman
          You could simply make a transition for the engineers that would send it "Back to Approved" or "Revision Not Needed" something like that, and only give that group permit access.

          The glaring problem is that with a controlled document are you 100% sure they didn't make any changes at this point?

          Corey
            • Is this where Rollback would be used?
              Jason Ebersole
              I agree with you on not being 100% sure doc wasn't changed. What is best practices then if Engineer changes his mind? Require a document administrator to do the rollback (or have a transition that the doc admin only has access to)? Before simply using a transition, I suppose the doc admin woudl have to take a close look at the history to make sure doc wasn't checked out (then in) by the engineer requesting the rollback...

              What happens in a real PDM environment and how it's typically handled has me stumped.

                • Is this where Rollback would be used?
                  Corey Hinman
                  Rolling back to the previous approved revision would be best option, do you see this happening often?
                    • Is this where Rollback would be used?
                      Jason Ebersole
                      I don't know, but in our current environment (with no PDM using windows folders), engineers copy what they want out of a tightly controlled Released folder and work with the files sometimes before an EC even gets submitted. (Maybe just to get a feel for what detail should be in the EC.)

                      If the EC gets submitted, the copied files are reviewed by a cad specialist then are copied back into the Released folder as new revisions (overwriting the previous). They have the flexibility to play all they want, trash the files, or submit them as part of an EC.

                      Is the following real world best practices?
                      In PDM, they could still copy out and play with the files, but any changes they make would have to be redone on the "real" files in the vault. This would be the consequence of making copies.

                      If they are working in the vault, they shouldn't be changing the state to "Under Change" unless the intent is for the files to cycle all the way through back to Approved.



                        • Is this where Rollback would be used?
                          Corey Hinman
                          For us....

                          The ECN document gets routed for approval. The CAD files move from Released to Pending, and the changes are made. Once the ECN is approved the cad files are promoted back to Released. If the ECN is cancelled or rejected the files would be rolled back by CAD.
                          • Is this where Rollback would be used?
                            Calvin Nelson
                            Regarding the situation of Engineers evaluating possible changes before submitting an EC but not wanting to redo the work if an EC does get submitted: They can copy those files out and work on them outside the vault, without change the state. Then, if they do submit an EC, then they just copy those files back into the vault after changing the state and checking out the vault copy. The system will ask if you want to overwrite, and you just click OK. Then, you can finish the changes, check-in and be on your way.

                            The downside to this approach is that no one will be able to tell that anyone is even looking at a potential EC on those files, since there is no state change occurring in the vault until an EC is actually submitted.
                      • Is this where Rollback would be used?

                        Corey Hinman wrote:

                         

                        The glaring problem is that with a controlled document are you 100% sure they didn't make any changes at this point?

                        One thing to note is that unless a change is made to a document, the version does not increase.
                          • Is this where Rollback would be used?
                            Jon Brunke
                            Cory,

                            We have a bit of a problem with Rollback and wondering what others have done or if they see this as a problem as well.

                            If enabled Rollback allows ANY user to "Destroy" any item regardless of its state, even those states specifically configured to prevent deletion. So ANY user can accidentally (or otherwise) destroy our issued documents.

                            I have been looking at possible solutions for quite awhile now but nothing so far seems all that great.

                            Our Situation:

                            Like most of you we have states that restrict the ability to delete certain items. Specifically those representing products that have gone into production and been sold to our customers.

                            Quite often (to Corey's question) our production items go into a revision cycle to support a new product (reuse), product improvement, upgrade etc. For many reasons the ER calling for that work may get terminated prior to production. For instance something marketing wanted is ultimately deemed to be a bad idea, to expensive etc. So over time we end up with a growing number of latest versions that aren't "real".

                            I'm not really keen on enabling Rollback for our user base. First, I have several Engineering sites on a few different continents and not a lot of control. Second, our legacy CAD data management software has a function similar to Rollback except it absolutely doesn't delete "State" protected items. So the entire user base is very used to a one button purge that was bullet proof as far as "protected" data.

                            Thoughts anyone?
                        • Is this where Rollback would be used?
                          Thomas Smith
                          I've also run into this problem and have yet to find a good solution. In the future I hope to see an "Undo State Change" that works the same as "Undo Check Out."