so if you haven't heard the news yet, SW and Luxology used
SWW2009 to make the announcement:
Luxology Previews New SolidWorks Importer at SolidWorks World 2009
Orlando (SolidWorks World, Booth # 1207) - Feb. 9, 2009 - Luxology® LLC , developers of modo®, a modern, designer-focused 3D software application, today demonstrated a new SolidWorks importer during SolidWorks World 2009. The importer is the result of a joint engineering effort between Dassault Systèmes SolidWorks and Luxology, and will be included in the upcoming release of modo 401. Compatible with Windows operating systems, the new importer supports the loading of SolidWorks files directly into modo for decoration, animation and rendering. To see Luxology's new importer working inside of modo 401, please visit the company's booth, #1207.
Luxology Previews New SolidWorks Importer at SolidWorks World 2009
Orlando (SolidWorks World, Booth # 1207) - Feb. 9, 2009 - Luxology® LLC , developers of modo®, a modern, designer-focused 3D software application, today demonstrated a new SolidWorks importer during SolidWorks World 2009. The importer is the result of a joint engineering effort between Dassault Systèmes SolidWorks and Luxology, and will be included in the upcoming release of modo 401. Compatible with Windows operating systems, the new importer supports the loading of SolidWorks files directly into modo for decoration, animation and rendering. To see Luxology's new importer working inside of modo 401, please visit the company's booth, #1207.
I ask this in all seriousness because I looked through their gallery and honestly I couldnt find anything that really stood out for me. Yeah ok its a nice renderer but I can find a lot of other renderers making similar or better quality/realism these days.
Is it just the speed element or do people see something in the render 'look' that is esp appealing that I don't?
just curious , not looking to create about it..
I'm not sure there is anything that sets a Modo rendering or animation apart from other software but at the $895 price point its a very attractive option for higher end visualization of SW geometry.
Neil, I've done renders for over 18 years now (starting with Stratavision on the Mac), and each rendering engine has a different quality. What I mean is that in addition to the obviousl things like render speed, there are subtle differences to the look and feel of a render. At the moment I'm using Maxwell, PhotoView 360, Hypershot, Cinema 4D and FormZ Renderzone Plus. These all use different rendering engines. Each is better suited to different scenarios. For example FormZ is perfect for point of sale and exterior architecture - the render is very crisp and clean. Maxwell is probably the ultimate in terms of quality, and again ideal for exterior architecture and product shots - not as crisp as FormZ but more subtle. Hypershot and PV360 you would think are the same, but in fact the differences are significant. PV360 does clear plastic really well - and fast. Hypershot does painted surfaces really well. Sure its a hard thing to see sometimes but its like when you paint a wall white, then you patch it up with the same white only to find its not the same
The other thing Modo has is a fantastic painting tool where you can literally paint textures onto surfaces in 3D - very few have this. Cinema 4D have something similar in BodyPaint.
I think Modo 401 - from the little I have seen - looks like being a great release. As Rob says, for SolidWorks users looking for that added extra , it is almost a no brainer.
(and it runs on a Mac as well - natively)
..so having SW to Modo leads me to believe that PV360 will remain a cut down version ..ie it wont get much more feature wise - else why export to Modo? and pay $900 for extra capability...perhaps Mark would like to answer that one.
I am not sure many SW users would need 3d texture paint but ok..
I guess its a bit like having a ModoExpress.
but it leads me to ask again about the surprising timing and rationale behind phasing out PW in favour of PV360 in the first place.
I am not sure many people saw the need at the time - Rob included -
perhaps it has more to do with an 09 marketing splash after a 08 splat and avoiding linking to Autodesk owned/related renderers after their CG aquisitions more than anything.
Still its a nice renderer and it will serve some SW users well
With regards to PV360 vs Modo and PhotoWorks, I think you always have to bear in mind that 2009 was a version 1 release. As far as I can see SW have licensed the Nexus rendering engine from Luxology to handle rendering - not the animation (and maybe not the texture painting - not sure on that one). In this respect it is no different to them licensing Mental Ray to power PhotoWorks. All it needs is an appropriate interface and to expose the features to the user. There is still a lot to be done before PV360 takes over from PhotoWorks though so it may be some time before the transition takes place.
But as far as I can see there is no reason to keep PV360 a cut down version. If the intention is to phase out PhotoWorks then they have to turn on all those features and build in more of a direct editing capability within Solidworks whilst in rendering mode.
The reason I'm looking at Modo 401 now is that it offers all those added benefits now, it has animation capabilities that far exceed what can be done in SolidWorks (or the forthcoming HyperMove), and that it is a superb sub division modeller - possibly one of the best. And it runs natively on a Mac
I guess as usual I have a different opinion to other folks.
I see PV360 as a mistake.
The trouble with the SW graphics options or the paths embarked on presently is that it does not sit well with either future technology developments or with real user needs.
What are those needs?
IMO
1)to produce instant images/clips for presentation to others in the design decision making process or for remote sharing, and with little skill or time spent - just drag and drop options and canned scenes - straight from the UI stuff.
This also acts as a quick and accurate preview and set up for 2)
2) to produce quality 'finished' work for traditional printed technical documentation and illustration and print derived formats - both line dwgs and photographic images. The old draughtsman's enginneering output updated and made possible by modern PC speed...
3) high quality bells and whistles presentations for a wider less technical audience - audio visual entertainment/advertising if you will
The trend is for 1) to be satisfied by AA screen grabs from Realview and soon other real time synthesis (Realview2- beginning with SW's quickie ambient occlusion)- and realtime physics simulation to handle the animation/interaction
ie animator is on the way out IMO..
2) is satisfied by 2d/3d dwgs in vector formats or xml and extreme qualtiy is derived from networked multicore path tracing based on physical modelling of materials and cameras
3) is the realm of storyboarded Flash compositing done by art houses and may be a mixture of cartoon, arty farty stuff, music etc etc - outside the usual engineering domain
Somehow in the pursuit of deriving something magical from associating themselves with Modo and vice versa in a fast swoop around the graphics round-about SW have gone around 3 times to no useful purpose and got themselves all crossed up coming out of the corner.
I dont believe this decision was taken by people with a handle on the big picture or that it was timely.
Could be wrong but thats my view.
PV360 would seem able to fill any of these positions well.
It is too basic for 2) and 3) - and possibly will be limited in its capability by the mutual marketing agreement/ licensing-
and overlaps and duplicates 1) with the penalty of CPU processing time.
Also what a waste of all the development gone into PW over the period..
PV360 doesnt seem to have a distinct future as a powerful tool in its own right.
Personally I think it may have a use as a beginners PW and I would actually not spend too much more time on it but incorporate it in base SW like a CosmosXpress. To me it has the look and feel of something escaped from SWlabs a little early..or perhaps an idea that should not have been gone ahead with at all..
I have been a Blender follower/user for some time and I dont see subdivision modellers as being compatible with engineering purposes and nor do I think it is the realm a CAD user should invade in the pursuit of animation. In general its a different sort of animation you are moving to.
SW is the place to tackle mate derived animation - ie mostly translation, pivots, contacts
The CG toolset is best left to the purpose for which it has evolved and the use of them to specialists with an artistic/graphics bent
Thats not to say CAD couldnt borrow and adapt useful bits of it but I think they are different disciplines and intent
The reason I think people find attraction in subdivision modelling is the apparent fluidity of work and some degree of fantasy about producing award winning special effects by using something that could have been used in Shrek but as SW tends to be more non modal the frustrations of manipulating a shape are diminishing.
I think we could still use some variations of tools we already have to make push and pull/ bend and stretch a little more controllable and that will satisfy many peoples needs short of moving to Catia
ok so I give up my few cents here - I struggle with writing at the best of times
In terms of modo it is just further reducing the gulf between the CAD and DCC world. Companies like mine regularly have to make use of CAD data or re-model products from scratch to create imagery for marketing and advertising. Having a SW importer for modo will help facilitate that...bringing in a SW file that already has 360 materials on it will make it even easier. modo is another option (albeit a more integrated one) for users or companies who want to expand their reach into the rendering or animation arena (doing product turntables for a product launch/webtour for example).
In terms of modeling modo will offer a quick means of putting your product in context...For instance a SW user at SW World works for a company that makes mining equipment - they want to create images of their products in context (at an outdoor mining site)...this kind of set dressing is much easier in modo.
None of this means 360 will not continue to be developed. I've noticed 2 things since 360 was released.
1. Users who never touched PW...(and never wanted to touch PW) were able to jump right into 360 and create great looking images (just look what Anna has been able to do...)
2. The other thing I noticed is that once people got a taste for rendering...and mastered 360 (which only takes a day or two) they wanted MORE power...and even went back determined to learn PW looking for that extra control. modo will provide all those things to those users and more that PW can't...
What #2 tells me is that 360 can use more advanced features..the trick to incorporating those is not losing the people from #1 who want something 'easy' to get their feet wet. 360 is still be developed...modo will be available to users looking for more...
There's any number of different apps with good rendering engines....the game changer with modo (and 360) is the interactive preview window...once you have it you never want to work without it. modo's quality is generally considered close (but not quite there yet) to VRay...and below what you can get with the unbiased Fry/Maxwell....but modo is vastly faster than those two and offers a more intuitive working environment (the preview window...drag-n-drop..UV editing..etc.)
At the end of the day it opens the doors to more people who want to leverage CAD data for everything from in-house print and web needs, pitches, presentations...all the way up to passing files to your agency to be used in national Ad campaigns for your product launch.
best,
Greg
thanks for putting your viewpoint,
I guess you feel a little obligued to speak up about the benefits of 360 after my sceptical musing.. sorry if you feel your product was slighted
I dont think its up to you to defend SW decisions but I welcome your reply anyway
I am just still a little lost about where 360 fits into the big SW picture.
Perhaps this is the case for other SW users as well -
I take it then although there will be more to 360 than we have now it will be finally somewhat below where PW is now in capabilty (relative quality not contended here..) so users will have something to move up to in Modo? and PW will be phased out...
SW users will then get a fairly fast and sophisticated 'paint by numbers' easy renderer - no slur intended - but no high end renderer will be available in SW product bundles?
Perhaps you are not the person to answer that and SW people dont talk about that sort of stuff anyway..
Myself I thought we were someway along the path of having Realview be the instant drag'n'drop preview and a preparation studio for a primo renderer but SW would seem to have abandoned that idea mid stream or at least backtracked and restated it in terms of another technology.
I cant imagine how SW could justify spending any more development time on Realview now that 360 has assumed the intermediary role as well which would seem to kill off any GPU based niceties like AO or other 'realtime' stuff.
To me that was one of the most likely paths for graphics development to go down - ie the incorporation of 'gaming' technology in the 3d window adapted to the purposes of CAD. sorta like going from mono sound to stereo to surround..
I would anticipate then some SW graphics employees finding themselves without meaningful work into the future - no PW, no further Realview but some ongoing liason of the interface with Modo
While there are many users who would benefit from having a minimal skill renderer on tap and indeed be stimulated to move up to an advanced level via an additional purchase I remain unconvinced about the wisdom of this strategy.
Not trashing your product at all or your good intention and company name just saying my opinion about SW planning-
I would be a little disturbed for instance if SW users having invested in SW premium still need to spend another $900 to get a capability they had included before albeit with more CG bells and whistles.
I guess we will have to agree to differ on the prefered approach of rendering for CAD but as I said its not up to you to defend SW decisions
thanks again
I hope your partnership with SW will be fruitful all round
In terms of a 360 'type' technology verses a 'RealView' GL-type tech I think 360 has a number of distinct advantages. Nobody knows where Nvidia and ATI will be a few years from now...what they will have to offer...what the state of their drivers and features will be...especially if Intel intends to compete with them. Both Nvidia and ATI/AMD look like pretty shaky ground right now...Intel otoh will only continue to have more and more cores...so imagine 360 with 32 cores and not having to worry about driver compatibility, what card you have or having to approximate the software renderer in hardware. I feel there's more promise using multiple CPU cores with 360/Hypershot type renderers... (just IMO)
best,
Greg
I think the matter of which method to pursue, GPU/CPU is the issue at the heart of this.
I think SW have both irons in the fire without a real plan other than to be ready to go either way or both.
I think also that most likely they threw in 360 somewhat prematurely as a 09 sweetner but it has had a downside in that it has confused users and come across that 360 is a little more limited than it should be.
Whilst I acknowledge your renderer is all fine and dandy and a worthy 'asset' for SW users I am surprised SW would consider abandoning the Nvidia relationship in favour of an inexperienced Intel..
32 cores working on any render is going to be fast
Unfortunately the CAD part of SW itself doesnt seem to be that into cores.
I dont know what hardware configuration might be best suited in the future - I would guess we will still have a pretty sequential process maybe some other secondary tasks happening -4 cores perhaps dunno..
Interesting to see how it pans out
I did have a thought recently about realtime simultaneous FEA/ motion analysis and optimisation going on concurrent with in progress modelling..sorta doing sketching and calcs with a framework of conditions and then moving to a best fit form.. guess we could put some of those extra cores to use when they werent rendering 360
thanks for appearing on the forum and making the topic interesting for users
Can't wait to see my SW-models in Modo!
PhotoWorks material does not have a displacement map, coating layer, complex IOR, weight map... which make it far away from the nature of physical material.