30 Replies Latest reply on Nov 10, 2017 4:57 PM by Robert Pliskat

    Hole Table text suggestions

    Robert Pliskat

      I'm not familiar with the advanced hole tool but I was curious if their is a way in any version, older or upcoming that allows you to attached predefined text call outs to a hole? I.E. favorite holes with hole call outs attached from a pre-defined list / database. I've been having to edit the hole tables extensively for years to make them more toolmaker "friendly" and it takes a lot of time to do this. Before SW, I was using Acad with an 3rd party program called Diemaker. There was a way to pre-write the text for all of your holes in an excel sheet and you could quickly attach them when inserting the holes. When you extracted into a hole table, it used the pre written text. In 2001 I provided SW with a set of my tool drawings as an example of this. It went from the VAR to North American corporate. Didn't hear anything for months. When I questioned how it was going, SW's reply was that it was sent to the main corp in France. A year later they replied that it could not be done. I stopped using SW and stuck with Acad & diemaker till 2007 for that reason alone. I obviously have returned but here we are 17 yrs later and still have the same issue. Is there anything that can be done to help with this issue? The hole tables are a real PIA for my line of work.

      An example would be a lifter hole in a tool:

      SW

      .3752 dia thru

      My version

      .375 SF thru-lifter

       

      This type of modification is needed for the guys in the shops. It helps them to determine the best process to make the part in an economical and timely fashion. It also helps with the jr toolmakers or apprentices as well. Of course this is just a basic example but it certainly can get to be a major issue when you have 100-200 details on 10-12 sheets.

        • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
          Scott Boerman

          Have you tried to edit the file "calloutformat.txt"?  I did so a few years ago to call a dowel hole "PF" rather than whatever SW default callout is.  (etc, etc, for toolmakers, just like your situation).

          Editing the file takes a bit of thinking to find the callouts that are relevant in the long file.  But it goes pretty quickly actually.

          Not sure if this fits your situation, this allows changing the callout for all SW standard hole types.

          Hope it helps.

          Scott

          • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
            Sergio Monti

            I Robert, I use sometimes the hole table and I find it very useful. I customised the "calloutformat.txt" and I get in the hole table the same hole description that I get if I dimension each hole with hole-callout command.

             

              • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                Scott Boerman

                Hi Sergio - I use the hole table extensively also, it works well with custom callouts just like your example.  In the screenshot it appears that the 3 left columns of the hole chart are narrower than the default.  Have you found a method to make the column widths automatically, or do you manually change them in every hole chart?

                Also it appears that the location of the callouts (A1 etc...) in the graphic are well-placed and well-sized.  Was this done manually or have you found a method to make these appear in a good location?

                Thanks in advance...

                • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                  Robert Pliskat

                  Thanks for the info guys. I used to kind of over do it in acad as it was easy to modify the text note database. Rick Becker started a thread " custom hole callouts in drawings" which is a branch from the 1 & 2 discussion based on this subject. I will give "calloutformat.txt" a try to check it out. The other suggestion from there was to make a list in a word doc, copy and paste into the hole table. Might give that a try as well as I already have a complete list in my Acad, Diemaker menu that I can just copy and paste into a word doc. We've been pursuing this subject on that thread as we both posted at the same time.

                • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                  Redecos Technologies

                  I feel the concept will be great if you combine with the hole table. The ordinate dimension is too difficult to follow and the dimension lines can make a mess on a B/W print. Right? But the text overriding should have been made easy, without going to property window each time!!

                  Capture.JPG

                    • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                      Robert Pliskat

                      This is typical of what I was able to do with acad and diemaker. All of this with very minimal typing.

                      acad1Capture.JPG

                      only mods I would do here was to add the "P=.188" for the perfs

                        • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                          Rick Becker

                          Robert Pliskat wrote:

                          only mods I would do here was to add the "P=.188" for the perfs

                          What does PERF stand for?

                            • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                              Robert Pliskat

                              perforator, It punches a hole on a metal part in a progressive die. P= means the point diameter of the perf is .188, so it would punch a .188 diameter hole in a metal part

                                • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                  Rick Becker

                                  Robert Pliskat wrote:

                                  perforator, It punches a hole in steel in a progressive die

                                   

                                  I'm a progressive die guy also. I'm confused by that call out.

                                  You are asking for a Light Tap Fit Thru at .375 diameter . Why state the punch nose diameter? It has nothing to do with the 3/8 hole?

                                   

                                  I'm not being critical, I'm just curious.

                                    • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                      Robert Pliskat

                                      Sometimes we have multiple perfs with the same body dia (.375) but have a different point dia. This way it helps the toolmakers get the right perf in the right hole. I've had parts with a hundred punched holes in them with 20-30 different sizes. I try to use different body sizes for different sized holes but sometimes you just can't do it.

                                        • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                          Rick Becker

                                          Robert Pliskat wrote:

                                          ... I try to use different body sizes for different sized holes but sometimes you just can't do it.

                                          Something I have done is th use Dayton Punches with the XD option. I will reduce by .0300 or .0600. (I usually also include XH)

                                           

                                          XD.JPG

                                            • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                              Robert Pliskat

                                              That's an option , depends on the situation though. I prefer to stick with the main standards, its usually cheaper. We never use Dayton as they are very pricey, long lead times and I've heard lately not so good quality. I'm between Chicago & Milwaukee, we use a Chicago company called GSC (Grinding Specialty Corp). They are awesome! normal delivery is 1-2 weeks max, emergencies, next day. Great quality as well. They are the go to guys in our neck of the woods. Perfs, bushings, lifters, spool lifters they do it all

                                                • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                                  Rick Becker

                                                  Robert Pliskat wrote:

                                                  ... We never use Dayton as they are very pricey, long lead times and I've heard lately not so good quality. ...

                                                   

                                                  They got bought out a few times and went thru a stretch with many problems. Try them again. 3-day guaranteed shipping on any catalog item. Price is in line and quality is very good.

                                                   

                                                  Robert Pliskat wrote:

                                                  ... we use a Chicago company called GSC (Grinding Specialty Corp). ...

                                                   

                                                  We use a great local perforation company also. Really love the price of the AF-O1 and the Style-B.

                                                  http://www.ppunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PrecPunchCat1.pdf

                                                    • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                                      Robert Pliskat

                                                      Checked out the link. Looks good! I've heard that about Dayton as well. We had some "special" items quoted by them with a coating not too long ago. Very small perfs with a conical point we use for a semi pierce / dimple. Problematic item we've been making ourselves but couldn't keep them consistant enough. They were double the cost of GSC. At first GSC didn't want to do it .....too small and contours too tight tolerance wise. They eventually took a whack at it and it worked out great for them and us...without the coating no less. We are getting 3-4 times the hits per piece we were getting when we made it.

                                        • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                          Sergio Monti

                                          I'm not familiar with "ANSI inch" because I use ISO metric, but I'm pretty sure if you spend some time ti customise "calloutformat.txt" you can write whatever you want automatically each time you call a hole. I've done it on mine.

                                          You can get the names of the geometry-related variables (the ones in brackets <hw-******>)  on the following command:

                                            • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                              Rick Becker

                                              Sergio Monti wrote:

                                              You can get the names of the geometry-related variables (the ones in brackets <hw-******>) on the following command:

                                               

                                              Sergio. What version are you using?

                                              I don't see the variable button...

                                              variable.JPG

                                              • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                                Robert Pliskat

                                                Hi Sergio/ Scott

                                                     When you modify the calloutformat.txt for say a c'bored hole does it apply to all c'bored holes all sizes, just that particular hole size or do you save it as a favorite hole? How do you distinguish between say a c'bored hole for a SHCS and one for say a perforator or an o ring seat.? Or do I have this messed up the way I'm thinking about it?

                                                Thank you

                                                  • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                                    Scott Boerman

                                                    Hi Robert,

                                                     

                                                    The callouts are per hole style that is selected in SW, regardless of size.  For special holes, if they are standard SW holes, the callout will be per that style.  Maybe special hole types can be made for o-ring seats (not sure if SW has this hole type or not, we don't use these)

                                                     

                                                    Looking through the calloutformat file, there are many rows of comments/notes that begin with *.  These comment rows do nothing, they are just notes to help manage the various items.  The hole callouts are broken into sections with headers, you'll need to browse through the entire file to see which ones are relevant for your needs.  (most sections probably do not apply).  It's broken down pretty finely, for example there are dowel holes press fit dowel holes standard fit, and dowel holes clearance fit - each with different callouts.  Below and attached is a snippet of my calloutformat file on the left compared to the standard SW on the right.  For press fit inch dowels, we use the suffix "PF xx DEEP" instead of the SW standard "<hole depth symbol> xxx".  We don't use countersink on dowel holes, so I only modified the Blind and Through hole section.  (side note - the thru hole section is mis-labeled as blind right from SW)

                                                    Hope this helps,

                                                    Scott

                                                     

                                                     

                                                      • Re: Hole Table text suggestions
                                                        Robert Pliskat

                                                        Hi Scott,

                                                             Thanks, that helps as I was sniffing around in the file a bit earlier and was getting confused by some of the layout. I use all ansi inch components and I was surprised how little of an area there was compared to the overall size of the file. When I first scrolled thru, I was like oh, this is going to be a PIA. Then I started looking at it on the way back up and realized I only will need to do a section of it.

                                                        I appreciate the help. Although this will be a bit of work to do the mods to the file, it will be far better than what I go thru on a couple of sets  of prints.

                                                        Thank you