6 Replies Latest reply on Sep 24, 2018 2:44 PM by Janko Stellaard

    "Source surface not defined at bolt connector" - Correct solution or not?

    Scott Baugh

      Anyone every seen this error message? I have been fighting through this message for hours and there is little to no information out there about this error, or at least how I searched it.

       

      I have an assembly that utilizes several bolts. These bolts are (1) used to keeps parts together, but (2) also they work together when the unit is lifted. During the analysis I used the bolted connection, but I kept getting this annoying and vague message. Most of my web searches resulted in everyone asking if the models were up to date or not. Of course I tried it that, with no solution. So I got to digging around in the bolt connection feature. Here at our company we always try to use bolt 5/16-18 headed bolts. The bolt feature listed that exactly .500" head and the body diameter is .3125". The actual bolts that fit into the unit have large washers on both sides of the sheet metal. The sheet metal on the outside has a larger hole for clearance at .500" and the inner hole is at .413, clearance for a 5/16 Pem nut. The .500" head size was causing my problem. Changing that head to something larger than what the head of the bolt actually is, made the message go away.

       

      Is this accurate and the proper answer, I don't know for sure. Hopefully someone who knows more than I and will answer this post and explain what to do when the clearance hole is almost as big as the head of the bolt.

        • Re: "Source surface not defined at bolt connector" - Correct solution or not?
          Mohit Shrivastava

          I assume you are using " Standard Mesh". Try with "Curvature based Mesh".

          • Re: "Source surface not defined at bolt connector" - Correct solution or not?
            Ryan Dark

            Hi Scott,

            I think your issue does not necessarily lie with the bolt connector itself but with whatever contact is defined at the interface of the two bodies being bolted together.  Your description doesn't mention anything about creating "No Penetration" contact sets.  Have you created that No Penetration contact sets that work in tandem with the bolt connectors?

            • Re: "Source surface not defined at bolt connector" - Correct solution or not?
              Janko Stellaard

              Symptom

              This message may pop up when running an analysis containing either connectors, remote loads, cyclic symmetry or elastic support, one of which has a problem. Depending on the version of the product and the connector, remote load, cyclic symmetry or elastic support causing the problem, the exact wording of the error message may vary.

              For instance:

               Source surface not defined at Remote load XXX

               Source surface not defined at Pin connector XXX

               Target surface not defined at Rigid Connector XXX

               Target surface not defined for Spring Connector XXX

               Etc.

               

              Cause

              The program detected a problem with the definition of the connector, remote load, cyclic symmetry or elastic support.

               

              Solution

              When you get this error message, you should review the definition of the connector, remote load, cyclic symmetry or elastic support mentioned in the error. Typically, the number mentioned after the connector, remote load, cyclic symmetry or elastic support is its internal ID. The Id of any item can be found by right clicking on it and selecting Details. You can use the pin on the Details dialog box to keep it open while you browse through all the items in your study.

               

              When you have identified the faulty item, edit it and review its definition. Chances are that the definition is invalid.

               Make sure the required selection fields are not empty or populated with incorrect geometric entities

               Check the mesh in the vicinity of the bolt entity to make sure it is adequately refined. Oftentimes a mesh that is too coarse can cause this error. Applying mesh controls and/or adjusting the tolerance may solve the issue.

               For bolt connectors: Check the contacts defined between the components that the bolt connector is joining together. There should be distinct no penetration contact sets between each contacting surface, and these should not conflict with any other contacts defined in the area.

               

              If you can't identify the connector, remote load, cyclic symmetry or elastic support causing the error, a good general approach to narrow down the problem might be to suppress components, loads connectors and fixtures as much as possible to simplify the model, and then add them back gradually until the problem shows.