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SOLIDWORKS Visualize 2017 Noise Grain Issue

Question asked by Fred Vraj on Aug 23, 2017
Latest reply on Dec 2, 2017 by Fred Vraj

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Good morning everybody and good day.

I have done some rendering with SW Visualize 2017 STANDARD in JPG but I can not get better result than this image.

It is rendered 1600 pix wide, 96 DPI, 5000 passes. ( yes 5000, anything less is horrible render. )

To me, the sharpness is really really poor. It looks OK but the edges and details are not sharp at all.

Any suggestion guys? I think I am really missing something out.

I have pretty good PC setup so no issue should be found here.( Win 10, i7-7700K, 4.2 GHz, QUADRO M4000 G Card, )

Thank you

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Chris Dordoni Aug 23, 2017 9:30 PM
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While I'm not a Visualize user I can give you a few suggestions ... Real objects never have infinitely sharp edges, there will always be a small highlight on an edge. Unless there is actually a small radius/fillet or chamfer on an edge in the model, the renderer must add that in. Its possible the Visualize renderer has the ability to do this, check the rendering settings.

The second consideration is the light to dark range, or levels. Sometimes there is a rendering setting called "Gamma" which can help. Otherwise is possible to process after in Photoshop or similar as shown.
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- Chris Cunningham @ Chris Dordoni on Aug 24, 2017 10:53 AM
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  Few suggestions.
  96dpi is very low quality. Everything in today's standards start at 300dpi. Try bumping up to 300. For a crisper image just keep bumping this setting up.
  For low light conditions I like to have render passes at least at 10000. I usually opt for 15000.
  If you turn off floor reflections it will help speed up the render time.
  Lastly check your camera settings and make sure your focus is correct.
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  - Fred Vraj @ Chris Cunningham on Sep 10, 2017 9:02 PM
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    Hi Chris,
    thank you for your input.
    The only think that I can mention is that DPI has nothing to do with viewing renders on Pc.
    It is only important if you print your images.
    You can try to render 96 and 1200 DPI, you will see no difference on PC screen.
    DOT PER INCH ( DPI ) does not effect PC image at all.
    72, 96, 1200 and any other DPIS, no difference if you view on Digital Screen.
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  - Fred Vraj @ Chris Cunningham on Dec 1, 2017 7:46 AM
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    Hi, 10000-15000 passes? How long will this take u? I got pretty good PC setup but that many passes would take me forever?
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    - Chris Cunningham @ Fred Vraj on Dec 1, 2017 12:07 PM
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      I render product images with no shadow, alpha on and background set to black. My render size is 5333x3000 and I usually go for 2000 passes unless It is a darker scene then I go for 10000 passes. I recently upgraded my system and have not run a 10000 pass yet, but will let you know the time it takes when I do. But at 5333x3000, 300dpi and 2000 passes it takes 30 min. For well lit animations I render at 1080p 300dpi and 500 passes. With footage at 8 seconds it runs around 3 hours of render time.
      
      Example of 2000 pass product image (I did mess up on metal grain direction). This is for product catalog, website, spec sheet, and manual:
      
      Example of 10000 pass scene. This if for magazine ads and print materials:
      
      Example of 500 pass animation (made for tv commercial):
      
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      - Chris Cunningham @ Chris Cunningham on Dec 1, 2017 2:31 PM
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        Check out what Daniel Simon says:
        
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      - Fred Vraj @ Chris Cunningham on Dec 2, 2017 7:20 AM
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        Hi Chris and thank you for your answer!
        Yes my estimate for the render time would be probably the same. I like your renders, nice sharp and crisp. You must have very good settings for light and overall environment.
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Ron Bates Aug 29, 2017 12:59 PM
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Hi Fred,

Perhaps you can be a bit more explicit... I cannot tell from your comments, exactly what "look" you are trying to achieve or exactly what you feel is lacking or wrong with the render.

In the subject you refer to "noise/grain" and in the comments you refer to "lack of detail". These seem like 2 different subjects to me.

When it comes to rendering, in my experience what is "good" or "bad" is largely subjective..

A lack of contrast can be as simple as an environment choice. ie the choice of HDR environment that is providing the lighting and reflections.

Meanwhile, Chris Dordoni is spot on. In the real world, machined parts never truly have "sharp edges" despite often being modeled that way. Visualize has a solution for this in the "Corner Radius" setting. Select a part, in part mode, and you will see a setting for this in the model tree. You likely only need a very small value here...usually 1mm or less depending on the size of your geometry.

Regarding actual grain/noise; well you have 2 options. As Chris Cunningham stated, up your pass count to allow the rendering to refine further. But this may be a bit prohibitive given your hardware. In which case, I've found the built in noise-removal tools in applications like PhotoShop or Bridge or even the free Gimp can do wonders to smooth out noise in a few seconds.

FYI - DPI settings won't make a difference. Since DPI setting only serves as a reference of how the overall pixel size (Width * Height) refers to physical image sizes. But the general notion of rendering an image at a larger size, then scaling it down, can sometimes squish out noise. Although it comes at the cost of increased render times so I'd still advise looking at noise removal filters instead.

HTH,
Ron
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Tianping Ma Sep 2, 2017 3:54 AM
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Hi Fred,

The "noise" word in your title attract me here. Since I just start to learn to use Visualise and find lots of noise which puzzle me a lot. After some search, I gain some understanding which might also useful for you.

In Visualise, there are two mode "fast" and "accurate" which are very different.

The fast mode use "biased renders" whose algorithm are simplified which make it more easy to get rid of the noise and come to the convergence. This kind of "biased renders" will sacrifice the quality of the image but be more faster. Usually, the biased renders are already very excellent (for example simple case as the desk you show).

The accurate mode, on the other hand, use "physically accurate rendering tool", which don't take the "shortcuts" in the algorithm. This will give better quality of the image. Maybe this is only meaningful since GPU function in Visualise make the rendering much faster. But, using the accurate mode, the algorithm is more difficult to get rid of the noises. You can find more related information at the attached Youtube link, at 3:43. SOLIDWORKS Visualize - Lesson 1 - YouTube

Simple conclusion is that, when we just want to take the advantage of the high calculation speed of GPU, we can use the fast mode of the Visualise to replace PV360. In some cases, when we want better image quality in complex designs/structures, we can use the accurate mode of Visualise, but remember to take long enough passes to get rid of the noises. (There are some saying that 1000 passes is enough, but my experience is 1000 is still too less)

Here are some other links which might be related:
Visualize - questions and user experiences so far
Noise & Quality Issues
What is the exact difference between 'Fast Mode' and 'Accurate Mode'?

Maybe these doesn't solve your "sharpness" issue. But hope these information can help you on the "noise" part. Please correct me if I understand it wrong, since I am quite new.

Tianping
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SOLIDWORKS Visualize 2017 Noise Grain Issue

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