18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 11, 2017 1:39 PM by Paul Risley

    Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?

    Martin Tofts

      I am making a cover to go over an assembly. I plan to make a sketch of the basic outline by creating a new part inside the assy, converting edges, and go from there.

       

      The items underneath the conver may change/alter.

       

      Is there any way that you can get the converted sketch to remain linked to the new part I am creating? Or is there another way for me to grab dimensions/posistions from an assy, and link them to a model?

        • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
          John Stoltzfus

          If you're using 2017 then download the attached Cabinet Sample and the Skeleton Sketch Part PDF..

            • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
              Martin Tofts

              Thanks John.

               

              Not sure if you can see my old Inventor videos, but this is what I did a while back. Pretty much the same thing.

               

              https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/5aed1672-4b0e-4554-bcad-7eee028d54f4

               

              However, what if I need to use an adaptive sketch from an assembly? I.e. create a new part within an assembly, convert edges from the assembly (from various parts), and then create a cover using the converted lines as markers. Therefore, if certain parts move, the cover shape will change to suit.

               

              Is that making sense?

                • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                  John Stoltzfus

                  Martin Tofts wrote:

                   

                   

                  However, what if I need to use an adaptive sketch from an assembly? I.e. create a new part within an assembly, convert edges from the assembly - SSP Part (from various parts), and then create a cover using the converted lines as markers. Therefore, if certain parts move, the cover shape will change to suit.

                   

                  Is that making sense?

                   

                  I have recently been bashed about shoving this process down peoples gullet, so I need to post a disclaimer - 1.  You don't need to do Top Down  2.  You don't need to use a SSP  -   3.  This is not my patented process nor was it discovered by me, there were people using Top Down modeling process for years   4.  I really care less what process "You" use

                   

                  But if that is the way you want to go then there are certain ways to approach the process so you can have good design and  a parametric easy to change model.  Setting up this process will also take longer then just quickly building from one part to another, more Design Intent thinking.

                   

                  Every Basic Shape For Every Part, must be derived from the SSP Part, you can also add additional details in the SSP if you want, basically my rule of thumb is this...  If there are two or more parts sharing the same detail, such as a hole or a combination of boss or cut extrudes, or sheet metal parts etc, then that detail should be in the SSP.  So if you have a box with a bottom 4 sides and a removable top and the top is the only part with holes then I wouldn't put those hole locations in the SSP, you can if you want, but don't need to. 

                   

                  So what happens if you just build from part to part, suppose the design change calls for the elimination of one part and replaced with another part that has a different shape, then every part that was connected or derived from that part will now show errors.  If its only derived from the SSP, there are No Errors involving the other parts, unless there would have been positioning mates between the other parts...

                    • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                      Richard Gergely

                      I mainly do mould tool design and the vast majority of product file are step/iges/parasolid.

                       

                      The fundamental problem is the multi-body split line part you have to create which will have a and b surface models and probably multi inserts split in it. These bodies are then used to create new parts at which point you put all the holes etc in. So fine the last area is suitable for the ssp but you simply can't get away from the first top down steps which can be very heavy - near on a 1000 features I have hit in a single file before which needed a huge amount of surfacing and inserts.

                       

                      So it's a bit frustrating because the worst mods usually involve a new part model from the client in step/iges/parasolid and ssp isn't going to help much the fact you can't get away from the top-down initial steps.

                       

                      Now on the other hand ssp when I have been doing plastic part product design assemblies can save time especially when it comes to modifications I have found.

                        • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                          Paul Risley

                          Richard,

                           

                          I feel your pain. While not in the mold business we are in the die, tooling and fixture business. The issues with customer changed models drives me crazy at times as we have to tool to their Step files. As soon as a revision comes through the original model needs to be replaced with the most current one. Surfaces, axis and any and all references to the "original" are blown away in one fell swoop.

                           

                          We haven't found a suitable "this works for all" type solution. We focus more on workflow on these projects.

                           

                          Inherently if everyone could do everything the same way we would all be in rows of cubicles looking up once in a while like prairie dogs. I for one like the diversity and challenge, although some days it would be nice not to have to think so much.

                            • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                              John Stoltzfus

                              Do you swap out the original Step file and recreate all sketch planes?? Is the Step file the part that is being punched/shaped ?

                                • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                  Paul Risley

                                  John,

                                   

                                  This a view of a frame that we get in step format. Typically the assembly consists of 50-100 pcs. We get 4-6 frames per 12 week build along with 10-15 other weldments that need fixturing to make a vehicle complete.

                                  Capture.JPG

                                   

                                  This is one revision,

                                   

                                  below is the next,

                                  Capture.JPG

                                  Changes a wee bit. So we address them as they come in.

                                   

                                  They are not always this drastic, but if a hole location changes we have to update accordingly.

                                    • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                      John Stoltzfus

                                      Basically you would follow that as a Master Part and make changes accordingly...

                                        • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                          Paul Risley

                                          Sort of, since we have to download and insert the new assembly into our fixture concept no internal ID numbers stay the same. It is basically a new assembly placed into our assembly everytime we get a revision. Even if their part numbers are the same we have a revision of each part assembled in their assembly per revision level. Any reference to rev a model blows out at rev b's introduction to the master assembly. We tried it for a wile of making an assembly of an assembly to get planes and surfaces set up, but it got cumbersome and when you talk about a radical shift away from one rev to the next it just gets easier to deal with the changes as they come rather than trying to predict what could change.

                                           

                                          The screenshots above were of the same section of the frame from one level to the next, when it comes to those changes. The parts are different and if we had a master sketch there is no where for it to update to. Additional parts added some removed it gets busy at times. So most of our fixture components are broke down into subs containing less than 10 manufactured parts, mated off the  origin of the base assembly and then shifted as the changes come.

                                            • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                              Grant Mattis

                                              Have you tried 3D Interconnect in SW2017? We will be attempting as soon as we are able.

                                               

                                              Quote from a VAR:

                                               

                                              "SOLIDWORKS 2017 3D Interconnect delivers groundbreaking new capabilities for working with both neutral and native CAD data from various sources, unlocking powerful new workflows for you to collaborate with customers and vendors. You can now:

                                              • Maintain direct integration of native CAD files from PTC®Creo®, Autodesk® Inventor®, Siemens® NX, SolidEdge®, and CATIA®, and treat them like native components.
                                              • Avoid fixing errors or problems due to SOLIDWORKS awareness of all components in the native CAD files, like face and edge IDs.
                                              • Directly open imported files and treat them like Base Parts, so you can freely make design modifications without affecting the native file.
                                              • Update both part and assembly files as design changes take place with Update Model feature."

                                               

                                              Hopefully it solves most of the issues with using models from other software.

                                                • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                                  Paul Risley

                                                  Yeah we were sold on it.

                                                   

                                                  Unfortunately when our customers send us a creo file it is missing information or worse yet has full history attached. If it is the latter that means every revision and purchased part piece of information is in the file structure. Which makes them huge to begin with then you have to remove all old revisions of everything from the file. Sucks, would be putting it mildly. Not Solidworks fault it is just the way it is.

                                                   

                                                  (We download the step files as that is the truest released version from our customer)

                                                   

                                                  The really nice feature is Inventor files if we get 1 offs from a customer I don't have to request a parasolid anymore just dump them as long as it is a format of Inventor that is supported.

                                                    • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                                      Grant Mattis

                                                      That's too bad. We get most of our models as Revit. Plan to go from there into inventor which I understand works fairly well and then save out the native inventor file to work with 3D Interconnect. Hopefully it works well for us. There is an open SPR to get 3D interconnect to work with Revit files which should be much better.

                                                       

                                                      Just a thought. Have you tried using 3D Interconnect on the Step file? I believe that is supposed to work too.

                                                       

                                                      Grant

                                                  • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                                    John Stoltzfus

                                                    Paul Risley wrote:

                                                     

                                                    The screenshots above were of the same section of the frame from one level to the next, when it comes to those changes. The parts are different and if we had a master sketch there is no where for it to update to. Additional parts added some removed it gets busy at times. So most of our fixture components are broke down into subs containing less than 10 manufactured parts, mated off the origin of the base assembly and then shifted as the changes come.

                                                     

                                                    That is definitely no option for a stand alone Skeleton Sketch Part or a Master Part/Sketch (inserted into an assembly), setup and I can easily see the time to upgrade/update would be astronomical and if you missed something it would also be a disaster.  In reality you are working with a Master Model, which is still driving the final part detail, so there are similarities.

                                      • Re: Can you derive/link sketches to mutliple parts in assembly?
                                        Grant Mattis

                                        Martin Tofts after watching some of your linked video the process is very similar in SW. What you are explaining with converting entities is exactly what I do often. When you go back and change the sketch(s) of the main part everything will update.

                                         

                                        A couple things to watch out for 1. Your main part with the sketches will need to be in every sub assembly. 2. Do not to your driving sketch outside of the immediate assembly you are working in. 3. Use Isolate when creating parts inside an assembly, it will help ensure you are selecting the item you think you are.

                                         

                                        That should keep you on the right path. Post here if you have more questions.

                                         

                                        Grant