31 Replies Latest reply on Aug 25, 2017 9:47 PM by Solid Air

    Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?

    Atom Falcone

      Am I just obtuse?

       

      For  a while now I've noticed that whenever I need to rotate a drawing view, I usually have to do it twice to get it where I want. Then I realized my problem is that I thought of rotation in clockwise direction, which makes general sense. Then I thought maybe I just wasn't thinking the way SW thinks, but then I noticed that even the little icon for Rotate View is in the CLOCKWISE direction. So what does it always rotate CCW? Am I missing something?

        • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
          Kelvin Lamport

          I agree it is counter-intuitive, but I believe it has something to do with the cartesian co-ordinate systems positive & negative notations.

          SW places the 0° at 3 O'clock (or East) so that anything between 12 and 3 (or North & East) is considered positive and that forms the basis for positive rotation ... but I may be way off the mark on that assumption.

          • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
            Glenn Schroeder

            I used to enter 270 if I wanted a view rotated 90° clockwise, but recently discovered that entering -90 works just as well.

            • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
              Paul Risley

              You are not alone on this one. I have thought the same for years.I have just gotten ingrained in the habit of positive number ccw, negative number cw. Works well especially if you have weird angle views to align in a drawing.

              • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                John Stoltzfus

                Isn't there also a difference if you try to pivot a "Back View" in a drawing....?

                • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                  Jim Sculley

                  Atom Falcone wrote:

                   

                  Am I just obtuse?

                   

                  For a while now I've noticed that whenever I need to rotate a drawing view

                  There's your problem right there.  Don't rotate drawing views.  Ever.  Either make a new view in the model that is the one you want, or reorient the standard views to get what you want.

                    • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                      Atom Falcone

                      I don't know what reorient standard views is, but I know sometimes you have to rotate a view for a drawing, just not doing it-isn't an option. Making a whole new view would be a time waste when you can just rotate a view. I have noticed what seems to be a further "problem" that seems to be an artifact of this rotate view issue. After you've rotated a view, other things you do later on seem to be affected by this (which is why I assume you're saying not to rotate ever).

                        • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                          John Stoltzfus

                          Try this.... Open the model and select a face you want shown in your front view and select normal to, then hit space bar and change the current view to the "Front" view..  Now when you drop the part into the drawing, it will be based on the three views as they should be....

                          • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                            Jim Sculley

                            Atom Falcone wrote:

                             

                            I don't know what reorient standard views is, but I know sometimes you have to rotate a view for a drawing, just not doing it-isn't an option.

                            You never have to rotate a drawing view.  It is never necessary.  Making a new view in the model or reorienting the standard views in the model is the correct way to do this.  See the help for the Orientation Dialog Box for details.

                              • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                Glenn Schroeder

                                Jim,

                                 

                                Why do you feel so strongly that rotating a view is wrong?   I've been doing it for years without any problems.

                                  • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                    Jim Sculley

                                    I have effectively eliminated this behavior in my co-workers so I  cannot provide any concrete examples at the moment.  However, in the past there were many occasions where I encountered bizarre non-intuitive behavior in drawings made by others and rotated drawing views were the culprit.  I recall center marks and auxilliary views behaving badly.  You will also have a mismatch between what the model says the front view looks like and what a front view in the drawing looks like (assuming you rotated the front view in the drawing).  If you like to use the model to verify that you haven't missed any feature dimensions on the drawing, this mismatch can be aggravating.

                                     

                                    I wish I could remember the details of one specific example from 10+ years ago, because it really caused major problems and resulted in several drawing views having to be deleted and redone.

                                    • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                      Dan Pihlaja

                                      Glenn Schroeder wrote:

                                       

                                      Jim,

                                       

                                      Why do you feel so strongly that rotating a view is wrong? I've been doing it for years without any problems.

                                      Sorry Glenn, but I agree with Jim on this one.  There is never a need to rotate a view.  Ok, never is a too strong a word here.....I admit now that sometimes rotate view might be needed.  I worked with a couple of guys who were constantly re-orienting the standard views (and didn't stop no matter what!), this screws up drawings that are made from the standard views.

                                       

                                      I either use a predefined view from the model (that I created) or I use the "Relative View"

                                      Also called "Relative to Model"

                                       

                                      Relative view is really nice because if your view is dependent on the angle of a surface, your view become parametric and will adjust accordingly.

                                       

                                      Also, re-orienting the standard views has no effect on either of these methods.

                                      • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                        Dwight Livingston

                                        Glenn

                                         

                                        I wouldn't put so strongly, but I do agree. I don't like any new move that resets conditions that could have been corrected by editing an earlier move. It makes it difficult for others to figure out what happened.

                                         

                                        I am now working with a part where somebody, on feature 100, did an extrude-cut to delete threads made in feature 3. Then they made their own set of threads on feature 101. I am sure it was easier for them and saved them time, but it wasted a lot of my time.

                                         

                                        Rotating views amounts to the same thing.

                                         

                                        Dwight

                                          • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                            John Stoltzfus

                                            Dwight Livingston wrote:

                                             

                                            I am now working with a part where somebody, on feature 100, did an extrude-cut to delete threads made in feature 3. Then they made their own set of threads on feature 101. I am sure it was easier for them and saved them time, but it wasted a lot of my time.

                                             

                                            Dwight

                                             

                                            Just curious what did you do? - Correct Feature 3 or create Feature 102...

                                            • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                              Glenn Schroeder

                                              Just to clear things up, about the only time I use the feature is to detail an individual body of a weldment to make it fit better on the sheet, or if it's at an odd angle in the model.  I know I could create a custom view in the model to do the same thing, but I've never had a problem with rotating so it doesn't seem worth the trouble.  And for the time being I'm a one-man show (see Job Opening with Texas A&M Transportation Institute), so that aspect hasn't been an issue.

                                               

                                              I can't imagine a situation where I'd rotate a view of an entire Part or Assembly.

                                                • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                                  Paul Risley

                                                  I am with you on this one Glenn. Working on custom welded frames that go over and around equipment in a food manufacturing facility, the rotate view is a great tool to show coping angles.

                                                   

                                                  I think there is some dissent on 2 different issues. I could be wrong. Most of the people seem to be discussing rotating a front view or a side view, On that I would concur. However not everyone makes the same parts or has to deal with things the same way. In weldments you have relative views and for a tube frame with 100 plus members setting up specific views for every miter is a major pain in the ass along with adding more to the part that may not be pertinent other than the drawing. To which end I would rotate the views of the bodies on my drawings every day rather than setting up views in the model to show the detail.

                                                   

                                                  It comes down to this, it is a tool and if you use it wisely it is powerful and works well.

                                                   

                                                  "Just like giving someone a nail gun, if they never used a hammer, don't expect good results from them using a nail gun." 

                                                   

                                                  That was just told to me last night on a job site for a deck being built, thought it was accurate to this and most conversations around our jobs.

                                                   

                                                  Tools in the software are just tools, if you can get the basics the rest comes as you move forward. I certainly don't expect an intern coming in here and grasping top down, in context modelling with virtual assemblies and parts. If they have a basic understanding of the software and can develop these skills later is what I look at.

                                                    • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                                      Dan Pihlaja

                                                      Paul Risley wrote:

                                                       

                                                      I am with you on this one Glenn. Working on custom welded frames that go over and around equipment in a food manufacturing facility, the rotate view is a great tool to show coping angles.

                                                       

                                                      I think there is some dissent on 2 different issues. I could be wrong. Most of the people seem to be discussing rotating a front view or a side view, On that I would concur. However not everyone makes the same parts or has to deal with things the same way. In weldments you have relative views and for a tube frame with 100 plus members setting up specific views for every miter is a major pain in the ass along with adding more to the part that may not be pertinent other than the drawing. To which end I would rotate the views of the bodies on my drawings every day rather than setting up views in the model to show the detail.

                                                       

                                                      It comes down to this, it is a tool and if you use it wisely it is powerful and works well.

                                                       

                                                      "Just like giving someone a nail gun, if they never used a hammer, don't expect good results from them using a nail gun."

                                                       

                                                      That was just told to me last night on a job site for a deck being built, thought it was accurate to this and most conversations around our jobs.

                                                       

                                                      Tools in the software are just tools, if you can get the basics the rest comes as you move forward. I certainly don't expect an intern coming in here and grasping top down, in context modelling with virtual assemblies and parts. If they have a basic understanding of the software and can develop these skills later is what I look at.

                                                       

                                                      Good point.  I updated my previous post accordingly. 

                                        • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                          Atom Falcone

                                          Alright, how about this...

                                           

                                          Trying to put my flat pattern (sheet metal) into my drawing, but it only has one view, I want the top view of the flat pattern, but that doesn't exist in the view pallet.

                                           

                                          So my guess is that people will suggest that I have to make a flat pattern top view, save it and somehow insert it into the drawing? I'm not sure about any of that. I'll go muck around to see if I can get that to work.

                                           

                                          Never mind, I found out that if you flat pattern view in an open file, the view palette will adjust accordingly with all the views in flat pattern format.

                                           

                                          Never mind again, that doesn't work since the view changes when I need to insert another folded view.

                                           

                                          Can anyone actually tell me how I'm suppose to follow the recommendations that people made?

                                          • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                            Solid Air

                                            View rotation is based off polar co-ordinates in which positive angles are counter-clockwise.  I suppose if you are a math major it makes perfect sense.

                                            • Re: Rotate drawing view direction is backwards?
                                              Rick Becker

                                              My 2 cents worth...

                                               

                                              I use rotate view as often as necessary to, as Glenn said, fit the detail on a sheet of paper.

                                               

                                              For example...

                                              Recently I detailed a 1-inch diameter shaft 12 inches long. Being part of an assembly the natural view came in to the drawing pointing up.

                                              I want to use a "B" sized piece of paper. (we have a rule that anything printed must be actual size)

                                              So...

                                              I put the shaft (pointing up) in the middle of the sheet. I quickly project a left/right/top/bottom view so I have 5 views. I then use rotate view on the main view and then I delete any views I don't need.

                                              I find this quicker than placing just one view, rotate, than project views.

                                               

                                              Has never been a problem and I think it is quicker than any other method.

                                               

                                              There is a bug that shows up when doing this. If you use Ordinate dimensions, the horizontal will now be vertical and vice versa.