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ECN Serial Number

Question asked by Shaun Toms on Mar 28, 2017
Latest reply on May 4, 2017 by Shaun Toms

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So, we have our datacard and it pulls a ECN # based on the next serial number when someone does the New ECN command. No problem there and technically this isn't a huge problem, but I'm trying to figure out why it changed on me.

As mentioned, when we do the New ECN command it pulls the serial number for the new ECN. Sometime between yesterday and a month ago, something must have changed, a setting or something that I haven't located. But what used to happen was, I would demonstrate the system by right clicking and selecting New ECN. Then I would just hit cancel so an ECN wasn't created. This had the added benefit that it would also not use up the next serial number and I could demo it all the time for everyone we were training on the ECN process.

Yesterday though, I noticed that it is now incrementing the serial number even when I hit cancel instead of when it created the actual file. I'm trying to figure out what setting I changed or what I did to make this happen as it was pretty convenient the old way to just hit cancel when I was training someone new. Again, last training I did was beginning of the month and it worked as I originally described. Yesterday though it now seems to want to increment the serial number whether I press cancel or not.

Thoughts?

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Paul Wyndham Apr 7, 2017 2:02 PM
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At the moment when I use the menu to create a new part using a template that pulls a serial number it appears not to increment the serial number when I click cancel.

Here are the settings from my Template:

Here are my serial number settings:

I don't see anything that stands out as looking like it would cause the serial number to increment. But maybe one of the checkboxes on the edit template file dialog could do it.

It would be great if you posted back if you got it fixed just in case someone else runs into your issue. Good luck.
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- Shaun Toms @ Paul Wyndham on Apr 24, 2017 11:58 AM
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  Ok, so I didn't want to post back right away because I wanted to keep playing around and testing. And the conclusion is, I have no conclusion. I'm still confused about the whole thing.
  
  So, I went back, double checked all my settings and permissions and everything checks out. Then I started testing it again.
  
  So, when I Right click and select New ECN, I get my Card which says my new filename will be ECN-3067. Which, If I check the serial number is the next number in line. I press Cancel, no file is created and I'm back to my Windows Explorer PDM window looking at my ECN folder contents.I check Serial number again and now it says the next number is 3068. HOWEVER, If I right click and select New ECN it opens my Card and shows the filename will be ECN-3067 still.
  
  So, I ran a series of tests to show what I'm seeing. It may look repetitive and like I'm just posting the same screenshot repeatedly but I assure you, each screen show is taken after each step I describe. And, it just doesn't make sense.
  
  So, here's the serial number
  
  ECN Card showing the filename with the serial number
  
  Press cancel and try again, same thing
  
  Press cancel and check serial number, but it shows it's advanced to 3068,
  
  Try it from another users login on a different computer,
  
  Try it from my computer again,
  
  And check serial number again,
  
  So, while it appears it's no longer advancing the serial number past the 1 step it shows it advance above. I'm curious why the serial number does not show 3067 as the next number even though on each computer and login I try it as it wants to create the file as 3067 even though the serial number shows 3068. Then I'm curious if at some point, if I leave the serial number showing as 3068, if someone eventually will get 3068 instead of 3067 at some point.
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  - Tim Webb @ Shaun Toms on Apr 24, 2017 12:21 PM
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    Shaun,
    I have seen this behavior as well and it's normal. See Solution ID S-063175 in the knowledge base. It explains it well.
    
    Tim CEPA
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    - Shaun Toms @ Tim Webb on Apr 24, 2017 12:34 PM
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      Ok, so that answers what I'm seeing now. Doesn't answer what I was seeing previously but now that previous behavior isn't present. So maybe me going through and double checking all my settings resulted in it somehow fixing itself is all I can think of.
      
      At least I know the correct behavior is what I'm currently seeing now.
      
      I'm going to keep following this thread because you guys are posting allot of useful information on the subject.
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      - Tim Webb @ Shaun Toms on Apr 24, 2017 12:47 PM
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        Glad it seems to be moving the "right direction". Some days, a first down is as valuable as a touchdown.
        Tim CEPA
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  - Stavros Smith @ Shaun Toms on Apr 24, 2017 12:25 PM
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    At first glance it appears that you may have delete rights, but not destroy rights. The way that the system is behaving, its as though its deleting your local copy but unable to remove it from the vault (all while registering the cancel command), which is why it keeps trying to create file 3067.
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    - Tim Webb @ Stavros Smith on Apr 24, 2017 12:42 PM
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      I thought that too Stavros but I've run across this in the knowledge base before where the database stores the next counter value that gets created when a template generates the value but when cancel is pressed, that value is stored until the next template that runs. The next value still gets used next. See my reply just above.
      
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      - Stavros Smith @ Tim Webb on Apr 24, 2017 12:59 PM
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        Ahh, I thought it was possibly assigning the same serial number but unable to provide the same document ID and making it think that the number has never been reused.
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  - Stavros Smith @ Shaun Toms on Apr 24, 2017 2:45 PM
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    Shaun, do you allow for duplicate file names? I notice when our system was acting up the filename would appear with an extra digit.
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    - Shaun Toms @ Stavros Smith on May 4, 2017 1:01 PM
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      No, we don't allow duplicate file names. I'll have to keep that in mind, see if it develops a similar issue.
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Tim Webb Apr 7, 2017 2:50 PM
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Shaun,
I've found that double increments happen when the template pulls a serial number AND the data card field for the new serial number default value is set to use a serial number.

Here's the template variables:
Here's my datacard field for "CO Number" NOTE: This setup WILL CAUSE duplicate numbers to be pulled. So, DO NOT set yours up this way LOL
Dispatch can cause this as well.
Hope this helps,
Tim CEPA
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Tim Webb Apr 7, 2017 3:00 PM
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See this thread too Serial number does not increment by 1

This one had to do with assigning a serial number value as the default value on a folder card. That's another possibility.

Tim CEPA
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Stavros Smith Apr 8, 2017 8:41 AM
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Hello,

I noticed this issue as well with our system. In the beginning hitting cancel would actually not create the file, somewhere along the line this changed, and specific users would not be able to cancel, as the file would be created anyway. This led us to having issues with our serial number, as EPDM registered that the command was 'Cancelled', so it would keep trying to use that same number (ECN-000275 [ECN cancelled by user]), but the admin tool would still indicate 'ECN-000276' as the next available number. Until going into the serial number generator and overtyping the next available number, it would constantly create 'ECN-000275[0,1,2,3,4,...]'.

I spoke to our VAR, its seems as though the Cancel button relies on the users rights, so this means the user needs to have delete and destroy rights for it to 'Cancel'. I did not want to give everyone those rights, our VAR suggested setting the template settings to 'Read permissions from the following user:' and setting it to the admin account or some one with admin permissions. This will allow the command to be cancelled without having to give the users delete/destroy rights.

Kind regards,

Stavros
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- Tim Webb @ Stavros Smith on Apr 10, 2017 10:59 AM
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  I learned something new today! So I'm going to investigate this and test it.
  Tim CEPA
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  - Stavros Smith @ Tim Webb on Apr 20, 2017 2:08 PM
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    Howdy Tim,
    
    Have you been able to recreate the problem? If so, have you managed to find another solution?
    
    Stavros
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    - Tim Webb @ Stavros Smith on Apr 20, 2017 3:29 PM
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      Yes Stavros, I have but I misunderstood when you typed
      Until going into the serial number generator and overtyping the next available number, it would constantly create 'ECN-000275[0,1,2,3,4,...]'.
      I thought you were saying your serial number counter would create files like ECN-0002750, ECN-0002751, ECN-0002752, ECN-0002753, ECN-0002754, ....etc. LOL Sorry, that's why I said I learned something new. I was thinking "Whoa! I didn't know PDM would add sub-serial numbers automatically if permissions were right!"
      
      When I run the template as Tom in engineering group without delete permissions, I get this error message when pressing cancel
      And the file CR-00011.xml is created but can't be deleted by the template because the template is running under Tom's permissions.
      But when I run the template as any user with delete permissions (such as the admin), pressing cancel doesn't increment the counter and does indeed delete the file that got created. I just ran my change request template and got CR-00011 for the document number and my admin tool counter shows CR-00012 as the next counter value. The file couldn't be deleted so now the numbers are wrong and we have an orphaned file that can't be used/checked in because they decided not to use it and it can't be deleted unless someone else with elevated permissions deletes it.
      
      So here's the deal.
      You will need to set the admin to run the template or another user with elevated permissions for delete if you want to be able to cancel.
      If you do this, make sure the permissions are set for that group so they can delete in the folder AND initial state where the template will drop that file.
      You could also give user groups permissions in the state to delete and destroy since it's an initial state BUT make sure that state isn't one the files could transition through after they have been through a REV...don't want them deleting or destroying files with REVs.
      I'm using SW PDM 2017 SP2.0
      
      Hope this helps,
      Tim CEPA
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ECN Serial Number

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