25 Replies Latest reply on Jan 18, 2017 11:58 AM by Paul Salvador

    errors that come back

    Joel Rapoport

      hello all,

       

      this is driving me crazy..... its not the first time this has happened to me, but now that i have to send the SW file on to someone else to start the mechanics on it, i need to be able to send him a clean file, and i cant seem to get one.

       

      the problem is that i have this model, pretty complicated built from surfaces, with 650 features, working on SW 2016 SP5- and what ever i do, when i save the file with no errors in it, then close and open it again, i get errors in it.

      i even tried freezing most of the features, but still get one error. when i try to go to this feature to fix it, a lot more features show as errors.

      and believe me- these are all features that i have fixed many times before, because i had to work on the model until i finished the design phase.

      btw, these are not even very complicated features that get the errors- sometimes its a filled surface (that doesn't find the edges he need to fill), sometimes its a "move body" that suddenly cant find the body he used to move before.

       

      im sorry but i cant send you guys the actual file because its a product in development.

       

      do you guys have any idea?

      did someone have the same problem and can tell me how he fixed it?

       

      any help will be great,

      thanks a lot,

      joel

        • Re: errors that come back
          Tony Cantrell

          First thing I would check, is to make sure all sketches are fully defined.

          • Re: errors that come back
            Rick Becker

            If you have any advanced mates that allow movement, replace them with simple mates and no allowed movement.

            As you mate try to use planes and axis as much as possible. Next best are faces.

            • Re: errors that come back
              John Stoltzfus

              A SW issue, is it possible to send the file to your VAR or have them take a look at it?  I have had this issue a lot in the past, but it doesn't happen any more, it's very frustrating to say the least.  The only way I totally eliminated it was by going completely to a Skeleton Sketch Part and being meticulous how I approach the design intent, sketches and modeling etc.. 

               

              If I could see the files and assembly, my first guess and what I would look for is circular rebuilds, the next thing is in context sketches and how they are related etc...  Those are the two known culprits in modeling errors.  The next thing I would look for is mate errors, and if that's where most of the errors are, I would redo them like Rick Becker  mentioned

               

              The first thing I would do is this, open the Top Assembly file and suppress every item in the feature tree, then one by one un-suppress them, if no errors show up till you close and re-open, then I would do a partial un-suppress and save and close, then open again, eventually the errors would start to pop up.  Doing it that way will help you to find the issue, once you know which sketch, or sketch plane is giving you the issue then re-design that part and you could be trouble free  

              • Re: errors that come back
                Joel Rapoport

                hey guy, im sorry if i wasent clear, but this doesn't happen in an assembly. these are errors in features in a part that had no error the last time i saved the part.

                what are your suggestions?

                • Re: errors that come back
                  Andreas Rhomberg

                  Sometimes rolling back to the top and slowly roll to the End takes care of similar errors that I see.

                  • Re: errors that come back
                    M. B.

                    Any chance your part has design tables or equations?  I had Sw16 SP5 parts that started failing for no reason especially when switching between configurations.  After much effort on my part I found the problem was that dimensions were not updating correctly between the different configurations.  My VAR was able to reproduce the issue but had no solutions and after several more days of prodding they finally told me that SW said it was a known issue that would not be fixed in SW2016.  They said to upgrade to SW2017 SP0 (big mistake) which is loaded with all kinds of strange behavior that costs me lots of time.

                     

                    You might try creating a new Windows User Account then use SW while logged in to this new account.  That helped me with one of my issues but other SW2017 issues remain.  Also, temporarily renaming the registry entry to .OLD would reset all SW settings to default which would tell you if corrupt settings are causing problems.

                    • Re: errors that come back
                      Christian Chu

                      did you derive this part from another part or assembly?

                      I've experienced with parts including complicated surfaces created by spline or derived from a parent part

                      Part looks good but one day, there are some errors when I open it (nothing change since the last time)

                      So What I did is : when the design is finalized, I checked the freeze bar and locked the FM up

                       

                        • Re: errors that come back
                          Joel Rapoport

                          no equations, no configurations...

                           

                          christian- it is not derived from another part (it is supposed to be the base part in the end). but it does have 3 parts inserted into it (that are still in context).

                          yeh i was freezing it, but i had problems that after i opened the part later there was an error in the frozen area that wasent there before...

                           

                           

                          going now through the feature tree, making sure that every sketch is fully defined.

                          but now every time i do ctrl Q, i get different errors.....

                           

                          its very strange

                            • Re: errors that come back
                              Christian Chu

                              Exactly what happened to me

                              I was not aware of any errors until I move the freeze bar up to make couple changes

                              Sometimes I just "edit and exit" the sketch/feature without any change and the error was gone away

                              or open/close inserted part to make the error disappeared

                              Here is the one - error from sketch19 which caused error on surface-extrude2

                              Just edit&exit sketch 19 - error disappeared

                              • Re: errors that come back
                                Paul Risley

                                Joel,

                                 

                                The three parts inserted are they open in SWX during these issues? Or are they not open?

                                 

                                The one thing with parts inserted it is like having a part built in context of an assembly, if the assembly or the parts are not open which your part is referencing you will get re-build errors. Simple features usually just a question mark behind the in context part, more complicated features and it can become hairy.(Lost surface id's, planes and inserted mates getting flipped.)

                                 

                                There is an option to break the link to the original parts in the insert dialog, not sure if that would be feasible for you or not. .

                                 

                                 

                                Good luck.

                                • Re: errors that come back
                                  John Stoltzfus

                                  Sketches that you are getting errors on - edit the sketch plane and see if there are any missing references, another thing to look for is any sketch with a ? or a > those signs relate to missing geometry or missing plane references - good chance that is the cause, especially since you mentioned that you imported parts and used in context.  Part in a part hasn't been successful for me ..........

                              • Re: errors that come back
                                Paul Salvador

                                ..sounds like something is flipping.. here are a couple of things to try..

                                1 - "Enable Advanced Body Checking".. and do a "ctrl-q"

                                2 - "Check Entity".. run this to find suspects which could be causing problems

                                veribld2.pngchkenty1.png

                                  • Re: errors that come back
                                    Joel Rapoport

                                    hey Paul,

                                     

                                    yeh i did a check and i think the cause of all the problems might be a specific surface that i had a lot of work done to.

                                    i think i might try tomorrow to change the way i am designing it and see if the problem persists.

                                    i will try the verification on rebuild option, but once it gave me a lot of problems with some models that also had a lot of persistent errors. so i turned it off and it helped in that situation.

                                     

                                    thanks guys for all the help,

                                     

                                    i will keep on trying tomorrow and keep posting my results.

                                    Joel

                                      • Re: errors that come back
                                        Paul Salvador

                                        Joel,.. kewl, yeah, I would probably look for any line/line or short overlaps and extend them so the boundaries/sides of the trims are clearly defined to one side or the other.   and, if you can simplify it or should I say, try not do too much (add a bunch of surfaces) in a trim operation,.. it also helps to better define what is on what side and ensuring trims are clean(r).

                                          • Re: errors that come back
                                            Joel Rapoport

                                            ok look what i have, i have been working on this for a few hours now.

                                            i found out all my problems are because of this button area that i have been working on.

                                            here is the first instance where i can see the problem occurring:

                                            edges.jpg

                                            when ever i do a Ctrl Q (and i have checked the verification on  rebuild in the options) i get here a different result- one time it shows that this part has one edge, and the other time it has 3 edges.

                                            this gives me all the errors because i do a lot of work the originates from these edges (surface loft etc), so every rebuild, the edge count is different, and all the features after this get errors.

                                            now what can i do to make this problem go away?

                                             

                                            i have to say (as a side note) i dont know if this problem is because of a problem in the way that i work (or not), but this feels like a problem that should not occur these days. i am working on SW2016. started working on SW2000 a "few" years ago. and the system should not have these kind of problems IMO.

                                             

                                            joel

                                              • Re: errors that come back
                                                Jonathan Poole

                                                Did you try this

                                                • Re: errors that come back
                                                  Paul Salvador

                                                  Joel,.. that edge is a very good suspect!...  is it a mirrored/shared edge?,... that is, can you extend and trim that edge before the mirror?

                                                    • Re: errors that come back
                                                      Joel Rapoport

                                                      hey Paul,

                                                       

                                                      yeh i have understood that this edge is the cause of all my problems. what you see here is a solid body. only after i continue working on it ,it becomes a surface.

                                                      so what i did, and for now is working every time, is to move the face (across the right plane) by offsetting it. then cutting it with the right plane.

                                                      this will give me the same result every time (only one edge, not 3), and there are no errors in the features below.

                                                      i guess its what you suggested in a way...

                                                       

                                                      this whole problem is driving me crazy. i have spent about two days of work on this problem.

                                                      i guess its a bug or glitch or whatever you want to call it, but there is no reason for these kind of problems.

                                                      SW should be a dependable software, that gives us the same result every time we do something.

                                                      i am disappointed with the company, that every year tries to give the users all kinds of new features, but the base software has all kinds of problems, that in other software that i use just dont happen.

                                                       

                                                      just my rant i guess, but this is very frustrating when you are on a deadline, and people are waiting for your work and they cant start working on the project until you finish your design, and you cant send it over because of bugs that waste your time...

                                                       

                                                      Joel

                                                        • Re: errors that come back
                                                          Paul Salvador

                                                          Joel,.. what you did to the solid boundary seam is good, it's basically the same thing with the surface extend,.. you're extending the underlaying boundary so it over extends (added material) and trims/knits that seam clean.  

                                                           

                                                          When dealing with surfaces,.. think in terms of sheets of fabric and sewing that fabric together.. you always need a little extra material to stitch it up,.. otherwise, it will tear.

                                                           

                                                          ...so, because it was a solid, some of the bounday data is "perfect"... which means,.. when you reuse that surface,.. there is NO extra material to stretch to make sure you can sew/knit the adjacent boundary.   ... it opens up and tears. (your 3 extra edge lines)

                                                           

                                                          And, yes,.. over the years.. the way the code handles the surfaces/boundaries/edges/curves or tolerances has changed.. it is VERY FRUSTRATING!

                                                    • Re: errors that come back
                                                      Jonathan Poole

                                                      Hmmmm?  is the part finished?  I mean out development?  What the manufacturing process required?  I was thinking that if you save the part out as a Parasolid, bring it back in and run an import diagnostics on it, what does that do?