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An open plea to Solidworks

Question asked by Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017
Latest reply on Jan 18, 2017 by Fernando Castro

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I have been looking at the upgrades for Solidworks 2017 and there are some nice ones. However, I don't understand why Solidworks has not made it possible to sketch on the side of an extruded cylinder and some other odd shapes without adding a new plane. I wish we could just click on the rounded side of the cylinder and sketch. This option should have been standard with cad software years ago, but as far as I know, no cad software has it. Solidworks is a leader in innovation, so I am asking them to please add this time saving option.

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Martin Russell Jan 9, 2017 6:47 AM
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Why don't you use the spline on surface command?

Allows you to draw on on cylinder surface without using planes.

Hope this helps.
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Sta Bla @ Martin Russell on Jan 9, 2017 8:15 AM
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Martin,
Thanks for the reply.
But that would sort of delete the purpose of working quickly.
We can make a cylinder in about 10 seconds with a quick circle and extrusion.
Then to mess with the spline function would take more time.
I want to be able to click the cylinder side and sketch. Being able to add holes, cuts, etc. Quick and simple.
I am still wondering why this is not a feature in all cad software. It seems to be an obvious and necessary time saver.
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Wojciech Paterski @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 8:37 AM
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for holes on the cylinder face you could always use 'hole wizard' and for sketch click it as 3d sketch
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John Stoltzfus @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 8:46 AM
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It would be a nice feature no doubt, however with the current use of SW we are forced to draw most of our geometry on a 2D plane, it doesn't take long to select the temporary axis and a pre-existing plane and adding another and starting your sketch from there.

I do grin when you talk about speed, in a "New' Design process, having the ability to do something in 10 seconds doesn't even cross my mind, it's a thought process and time is secondary verses a stable parametric design. I can see time being a factor in drafting or detailing drawings, yeah it would really be nice to cut that time in half. However, if time is of a concern and you can get SW to add this, it definitely would be nice.
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Doug Seibel Jan 9, 2017 9:01 AM
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The side of a cylinder is not planar. How exactly do you envision this functionality working? A datum plane being automatically created tangent to the surface at the exact point where you clicked on it? What would be your control for the plane? There is a simple reason why no CAD software has what you are asking for...none of them are able to read your mind.

What you are asking for does exist, in as much as it can. It is called 3D Sketching. And as a general rule, it is faster to define a plane and do a 2D Sketch than to go through the hassle of 3D sketching.
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Glenn Schroeder Jan 9, 2017 8:53 AM
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Hello,

If you know ahead of time that you'll need to make holes, why not create your cylinder tangent to one of the primary planes and use that for sketching? Other than that, I'm confused about what you want. Do you want sketch entities to be placed on the face of the cylinder, or on an imaginary plane tangent to it?
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John Stoltzfus @ Doug Seibel on Jan 9, 2017 8:56 AM
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I could see it working with a multiple choice dialog box, however it would require the exact same two references that we would use today;

1. Select the "New" feature (same as selecting a New Plane)
2. First question or input would be the cylindrical surface, (same as selecting the temporary axis)
3. Plane reference, (same as selecting a Plane reference now, with the same questions, angled, parallel, coincident etc....)

So really no difference unless Sta Bla has a specific detail on how it would be applied...
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Jim Steinmeyer Jan 9, 2017 9:09 AM
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As has been said it would be difficult to know the design intent and I think many people would have a difficult time with it. If you place a round hole on the surface do you want a round hole like a drill would create, or do you want it cut like an oval when viewed from straight on which is what you would get if a round hole was wrapped around a cylinder?
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Gary Lucas Jan 9, 2017 10:04 AM
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For me it would be nice to simply eliminate adding a plane when one of the primary planes could work with an offset set by the surface. So a drilled hole on the top plane using the surface of the cylinder as an offset would be really useful to me at least. I do piping headers a lot and this would save modeling time.
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Sta Bla Jan 9, 2017 12:33 PM
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Thanks for all the replies. My idea would to either be able to click the side of the cylinder and add a face wrap plane, that would wrap around the complete curvature of the cylinder or other odd surface, as John Stoltzfus said, as a dropdown choice. Or simply make extruded surfaces act like flat surfaces to accept sketches. Planes have been flat forever, I believe. A face wrap plane would be wonderful. I am by no means an engineer or technician or cad software designer, so my ideas are basic. If someone else, wiser than me, has an idea as to how Solidworks could update so we can click and sketch a cylinder side, without having to put up one, two or more planes, please let me know. And I pray Solidworks is listening to my plea.
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Chris Saller Jan 9, 2017 12:37 PM
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This could be difficult. To sketch linear lines on a curve surface could be difficult to program for SW.
Use the Wrap command, or use 3D sketches.
Training helps alot.
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Christian Chu Jan 9, 2017 12:42 PM
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Sta,
Agreed with you. The question is: how to get a true dimension from a sketch on the round surface?
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Dennis Dohogne @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 1:07 PM
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Yes, planes generally are flat. Plane (geometry) - Wikipedia (Sorry. I couldn't resist. )

You should collect the comments of all contributing to your post and think this through, then you should submit an Enhancement Request for this. ER's officially get much more attention than our pleas on this forum (for now at least: Simplify the Enhancement Request System and Tie it Into the Forums ).
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Doug Seibel @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 1:17 PM
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Perhaps this will help you understand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(geometry)
"In mathematics, a plane is a flat, two-dimensional surface that extends infinitely far."

Planes have been flat forever because...planes are flat...by their very definition. Also, cylinders have been cylinders forever because...they are cylinders.
A plane cannot wrap around a cylinder or follow the contour of an odd surface because then it would no longer be a plane.

Bottom line is you cannot enjoy the simplicities of 2D sketching unless you are sketching on something flat.
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Sta Bla Jan 9, 2017 2:50 PM
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Yes, I understand that planes have always been flat, but they could possibly be made to contour to a round object. Anything is possible. Or possibly allow round objects to be sketched on as easily as flat objects somehow. it may be a bit difficult for Solidworks designers to do, but they would be the first. I'm sure that it was a lot more difficult for whoever designed the first cad software than it would be for them to allow us to sketch on a rounded surface. Does everyone not agree that this click and sketch on round surfaces idea would be a great step forward and time saver? I have been hoping for this since I first started using Solidworks.
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Doug Seibel @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 3:42 PM
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"Yes, I understand that planes have always been flat, but they could possibly be made to contour to a round object. Anything is possible."

No, not really. 2+2 does not equal 13. Planes cannot be anything other than flat and still be a plane.

Using the "Emboss" and "Deboss" option of the Wrap command, it is easy to sketch on any plane and use that sketch to create the desired text on a cylinder (or contoured/irregular surfaces).

(The attached part was modeled in Solidworks 2016 SP5.0)
Attachments
- TEXT ON CYLINDER.SLDPRT.zip2.2 MB
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Chris Saller Jan 9, 2017 3:38 PM
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If a plane were to follow a surface, would it still be called a plane?
Plane: A flat surface on which a straight line joining any two points on it would wholly lie.
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Jim Riddell @ Doug Seibel on Jan 9, 2017 3:47 PM
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That is not true for non-Euclidian geometry. Much mapping (even in CAD programs) are based on non-Euclidian geometry.
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Sta Bla Jan 9, 2017 3:53 PM
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Doug, I will take a look at t your file shortly. I have worked with the wrap feature, but it involves time and work. A simple click and sketch would be so much better.
Chris, it doesn't have to be called a plane. But deserts are often described as planes, and they have hills and bumps.
As I said, there is someone out there in Solidworks land much wiser than me about Solidworks that may have a solution to this much needed fix.
If the Solidworks team can solve this, and implement it, they will be leaps and bounds ahead of their competitors.
For all I know, there may be a simple solution to allow the cylindrical click and sketch function that Solidworks could include in an update.
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Doug Seibel @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 4:43 PM
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Deserts are not described as planes...they are described as plains.

Where I grew up was part of the Great Plains...not planes.

Topographical geography does not follow the strict rules of mathematical geometry. Solidworks is a design software based on the strict rules of mathematical geometry.
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Jason Martin @ Doug Seibel on Jan 9, 2017 4:11 PM
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Doug Seibel just made the best example of what I can think of as using the WRAP feature. I cant think of any easier way to solve this faster and easier. The Wrap feature should have everything we need. I even did a project using this Wrap feature for a complete model of R2D2's body.
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Chris Saller @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 4:11 PM
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A plane for a desert is a vague term that has been used for a long time. A lot of people that use that term didn't pass geometry. (just kidding);-)

There are several ways to create features in a SW model.
Create a sketch on a plane, use the Wrap feature. This will most likely get you what you need.
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Craig Schultz Jan 9, 2017 4:13 PM
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I thought this conversation sounded familiar.

sketch on sphere without making new plane

You need to create a plane to draw your shape. Or you could draw a 3D spline and attach the points to the face of the cylinder.
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Jason Martin @ Craig Schultz on Jan 9, 2017 4:21 PM
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This sounds something similar to animation software that she is trying to recommend. Sounds like 3D clay modeling with your Virtual reality system.
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Dennis Dohogne @ Sta Bla on Jan 9, 2017 4:35 PM
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Sta Bla,
I don't like using 3D sketches and use them only when I have to, but in this case it might be just the ticket for you. You can make sketch points and lines that are constrained to a surface. That sounds pretty much like what you are after.

You seem insistent that what you want is something that EVERYBODY is screaming for. Apparently that is not the case. You have been offered several ways to accomplish what you are after within the current capabilities of the software and your response is basically that that's not good enough for you.

With all due respect, you should:
1. Try the different techniques that we have generously suggested.
2. Get your request into the proper forum (pun intended) and submit an ER.
3. Quit trying to redefine what a plane is in the context of SWX.
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An open plea to Solidworks

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