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Pdmworks Enterprise vs. team center

Question asked by Josh Kersey on Oct 22, 2008
Latest reply on Apr 7, 2016 by Jason Capriotti

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We are currently trying to upgrade from PDMWorks Workgroup (we out grew it). We are considering PDMWorks Enterpirse and Siemens PLM software Team Center. Wanted to see what others did when making the decision on PDM/PLM system and what the major issues in making a decision either way?

Thanks

Josh
PLM newbie.

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Wayne Tiffany Oct 22, 2008 2:52 PM
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In April 2007 I put together a short presentation that answers a lot of questions that people have about PDMWE. It doesn't cover everything and it's a bit dated, but still has some good stuff. You can grab it and take a look - it might help you.

www.kcswug.com/documents/PDMWE WT presentation.pdf

WT
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Jason Capriotti Oct 22, 2008 5:51 PM
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Depends on what you need. Teamcenter is a lot higher level and does a lot more but will cost much more.....about 4x the cost in our case.
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Josh Kersey @ Jason Capriotti on Oct 22, 2008 5:56 PM
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Thanks guys,
Wayne I am going over your presentation currently. Thanks.

Jason,
How long have you been using team center? Did you have to migrate files from another PDM? Do you think you made the right decision going with teamcenter?
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Jason Capriotti @ Josh Kersey on Oct 22, 2008 6:11 PM
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We don't have a PDM currently....still evaluating. I've just been through several demos and a lot of questions. Next step is to narrow it down to 2 or 3 and get some hands on with them.

Looking at:
Smarteam
Teamcenter
Agile
Arena
Enterprise
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Josh Kersey @ Jason Capriotti on Oct 22, 2008 6:18 PM
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Good luck. Seems like we are in similar situation. We have trimmed our options down to Teamcenter and Enterprise.

Haven't heard many good things about Smarteam. Had a couple engineers here that used it at a previous place of employment, they did not like it.

If you get any groundbreaking information please forward it along. Thanks for your input.
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Jason Capriotti @ Josh Kersey on Oct 22, 2008 7:44 PM
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What are your expectations for PDM/PLM?.....What do you want it to do?
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Josh Kersey @ Jason Capriotti on Oct 23, 2008 11:33 AM
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We currently use PDMWorks workgroup to manage all the design data and we are experiences several issues. When we tried to get support from our VAR they said our vault was exceeding the recommended size for workgroup. Along with that, we use a custom application (written by our VAR) to automatically print out drawings and works instructions (from PDMWorks vault) to get information out to our mfg floor for them to build whatever order is required. They also told us since we had the custom application SW would not support PDMWorks.

So we started searching and narrowed down to PDMWE and Teamcenter. We have to have the design data management (SW and office files mainly), the automatic printing for the documentation required to build the product - kinda first stage implementation. Grow that into documenting initial design phase, work flow, online approval and hopefully into a paperless mfg (operator's can have viewers at their station instead of print outs).

In my research so far, found that migrating files from PDMW workgroup is going to be a challenge whichever way we proceed.
Both will work for our stage one but teamcenter seems to be more robust and scalable as we grow (and more expensive). Worried about running into the same issue with PDMWE support if a custom application is required.

Kind of a long answer, sorry. Any suggestions?
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Bill Hagen @ Josh Kersey on Oct 23, 2008 1:23 PM
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I am in the same position right now too. Basically setttled on Teamcenter or Enterprise.

I have seen presentations on both, like others have said Teamcenter has more functionality and costs more.

If you have more then one cad system (we have 4!) then teamcenter is a much better option.

The teamcenter interface in solidworks is not as nice as Enterprise, but it gets the job done without being confusing.

Implementation time for Enterprise and Teamcenter Express is probably similar (less then a month). If you choose the non-express version of teamcenter then it's going to be longer because there is more configuring to do (Teamcenter Express has preconfigured workflows and such).

We are a Siemens customer (I-DEAS cad system) and the support is generally the best that I have seen for any cad software or anything for that matter (most calls I am talking with someone within a couple of minutes, rareky have i had to leave a message). But I would expect that with what we pay in maintenance each year. VAR are hit or miss, mine is good. But I have the feeling that once you get past the cad software the support for PLM software is probably better from the company then through a VAR.
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Todd Puckett @ Bill Hagen on Oct 23, 2008 4:39 PM
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"Implementation time for Enterprise and Teamcenter Express is probably similar"
Since we have been using PDMWE for many years we've had a few Teamcenter customers visit us when considering PDMWorks Enterprise. They are always very interested in what it took us to get things setup and our experiences with upgrades.
Their Teamcenter implementations took over 6 months and their reluctance to do version upgrades because of past upgrade experiences was surprising. I don't remember the specifics on what PDM product they were moving from.
Our implementation was quick and easy since we were not tied to any PDM product and our version upgrades are completed over a weekend. I spend less than 2 hrs a week maintaining 70+ active users.

Hope this is helpful.
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Josh Kersey @ Todd Puckett on Oct 23, 2008 5:20 PM
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Thanks Todd. Were the folks you talked to about Teamcenter using teamcenter express? From what I understand it is better out of hte box and shorter implementation and has not been released very long.
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Todd Puckett @ Josh Kersey on Oct 23, 2008 5:34 PM
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Sorry, I don't recall which version they were using. I'm sure it wasn't the latest version.
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Anand Ramalingam @ Todd Puckett on Oct 24, 2008 4:38 AM
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what about IBM Enovia (matrix one)
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1-FEIR6G Oct 26, 2008 2:17 AM
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I have implemented Teamcenter Engineering (not the Express version), Intralink, and PDMWorks Enterprise. The install and configuration of Teamcenter was a nightmare. It took months to finally get it production ready. The interface hard to use, the terminology ambiguous and confusing, and the error messages were cryptic or non-existent. Upgrades the and patches were difficult and time consuming. Many times I had to upgrade or patch all of the clients which couldn't be done remotely. It is true that Teamcenter has a lot of capability, but the software required a large amount of support and each added feature that we used required even more support.

Installing and configuring PDMWorks Enterprise was actually fun compared to Teamcenter. We had the software production ready in a couple of weeks. It does 95% of what we required with out customizations and little in the way of compromises. I have only been using it for a little while now so I still haven't explored every nook and cranny (i.g. I haven't had to upgrade it yet, or make significant changes to match new business practices). Our implementation went so smoothly I now have time to plan some customizations (add-ins) I would like to create. Having looked into the API, even that seems reasonably straightforward for someone who has some programming knowledge.

I hope this was helpful.
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Craig Jones @ 1-FEIR6G on Mar 31, 2009 6:19 PM
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If you have a full-time CAD admin and you a large company then you will probably be alright but if you aren't I would suggest Enterprise. We used UG(Nx) from 98-2004 and it worked fine. Then we decided to switch to Solid Edge with Tc and that's when the problems started. We could not get SE to work well with Tc and we did not get any support from UG at all. Probably because we only had aprx. 40 licenses of NX. We were a small company to UG. We finally gave up on Solid Edge and Tc and are now using SW and Enterprise. The support from Solidworks is better and the interface seems to be more user friendly. We are currently working on our workflows. The only thing that stands out against SW is there 2D is terrible and they need to catch up with other 3D packages in sheetmetal.
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Lucas Dexter Apr 27, 2009 4:59 PM
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Josh,
We recently spent 3 months evailuating the big PLM suppliers; Matix One, Product Center, Teamcenter, Windchill, and Aras for a PLM solution. All of them, except for Aras, requires you use their vault for CAD data. Needless to say we went with Aras. We are already on EPDM which we implemented two years ago and use SolidWorks and AutoCAD. We tride to implement Smarteam for 3 years with no luck (thank goodness). I did most of the implimentation of EPDM with a little help from our VAR and have upgraded 3 times since. The upgrades are a breeze compared to the others from what I understand. The big boys wanted $25K just to help upgrade every 12 months or so in addition to subscription support - WOW! Sounds like they need to work on their programming methods if it is that hard to upgrade. Some of them wouldn't even quote a price for tech support which tells me they stick it to you when you need their help.
I am kind of bias because I love EPDM. It is the ideal PDM software if you work with SolidWorks and Acad (plus it accepts all other file types). Support is excellent (depending on your SW VAR) and the ease of use on the user side is second to none. Not to mention the tight integration with SolidWorks.
I have heard others say Teamcenter is at a higher level but I do not really understand that feedback. Anything is doable when it comes to software depending how much money and time you are willing to spend. EPDM can do everything the bigger companies can as long as you are willing to spend time and money. Fortunately we are still running out of the box with only two add-ins.

We are running 200 seats of EPDM with 140 SolidWorks and 94 Autocad users. It is installed on about 1200 machines and is replicated to 3 other sites. I feel we haven't come close to reaching its limit.

Hope this helps in the decision making process.
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Stuart Price @ Lucas Dexter on Feb 8, 2012 2:01 PM
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Lucas,

I just ran accross your post about using ARAS with Enterprise PDM. I know this is an old post but would like to hear more since my company implemented EPDM around the same time yours did. Right now we are having growing pains with the system and are looking for added PLM functionality possibly with ARAS.

Thanks,
Dale
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Krisztian Bimbo @ Wayne Tiffany on Mar 31, 2016 3:57 AM
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Hello Wayne,

Is this paper still available?

Many thanks
Kristian
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Krisztian Bimbo @ Jason Capriotti on Mar 31, 2016 4:00 AM
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Hi Jason,

Would you mind to share your conclusions re EPDM vs Teamcenter? I am struggling to get the complexity out of EPDM that I want.
Also your experience with the chosen platform?

Many thanks,
Kristian
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Krisztian Bimbo @ Stuart Price on Mar 31, 2016 5:10 AM
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Hi Dale,

How did you get on with your PLM implementation?
How does EPDM behave? What level of complexity is sqeezed out of EPDM in your system?

I am developing an PDM system where
part numbering is automatic,
row materials are allocated in PDM
finish is allocated in PDM
Dxfs are generated programmaically
drawing pdfs are generated programmaically
and a job release/BOM entry to ERP is automated.

Can EPDM cope with this complexity with add-ins?

Many thanks,
Kristian
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Steve Calvert @ Krisztian Bimbo on Mar 31, 2016 7:12 AM
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Krisztian, unfortunately, Wayne Tiffany, who was a friend to most of us, past on several years ago. It's good to see his name pop up from time to time because we all miss his charm and wit.

I'm sure someone here can find that paper for you.

Steve C
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Jason Capriotti @ Krisztian Bimbo on Mar 31, 2016 2:55 PM
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I've only sat through demos of Teamcenter....and its direct competitors like Dassault's 3dexperience and PTC's Windchill. These system cost a lot more but also do a lot more. EPDM is a document manager and not much else. However we've been using it since 2009 and have customized it quite a bit to do what it can't do OOTB.

The PLM's do document management, change management, project management, BOM management, cost management, quality management, and requirements management. ePDM can do some of these things but it will take some customization. Just depends on how much you want to spend.
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Jason Capriotti @ Krisztian Bimbo on Mar 31, 2016 3:01 PM
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EPDM can do automatic part numbering, unless you have an overly complex part numbering scheme..like we do. I don;t know what you mean by row materials and finish being allocated in PDM. You can create files to represent them.

DXFs and PDFs can be automatically generated via tasks although you'll probably have to code the scripts to get what you want. We don't yet do this but plan to.
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Krisztian Bimbo @ Steve Calvert on Apr 7, 2016 7:40 AM
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Steve, thanks for your message. I am sure that Wayne was a great person. There is no better proof than the fact that you made the effort to reply on his behalf.

Again, many thanks.
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Krisztian Bimbo @ Jason Capriotti on Apr 7, 2016 9:54 AM
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Thanks for replaying Jason.
With regards to raw materials and finish, yes I am thinking to use other parts to represent them in a parent-child relationship like manner.

Previously (at another company) I have done it in SmarTeam, a painted part (or assembly) looked like this:
+Painted Part
+ Part
+ Raw material
This structure / BOM was then transferred to the MRP system.

In the new system in EPDM we'll use an add-on for part numbering with pre-set component groups and I allocate ALIAS against them. So the part no will be compiled as follows: ALIAS+counter: 123-45678 or ABC-12345
I aim to stick an additional prefix on it for location (we are multi site) 101-633-22331 or FR-633-22331 (site - part group - counter)

I definitely want a 'Design Release' add-on with the following automation:
- Transfer BOM from PDM to MRP
- create dxfs
- create pdfs
- check part - drawing links, revision match, revision note match, etc.
- Release state

I have done it before and it is very powerful.
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Jason Capriotti @ Krisztian Bimbo on Apr 7, 2016 12:58 PM
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With add-in's you can do just about anything. We have a release tool like you mention that checks and validates all files are in the correct states and are complete. It also checks it against an outside database for completion.
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Pdmworks Enterprise vs. team center

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