23 Replies Latest reply on Mar 1, 2018 1:13 PM by David Brukardt

    SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES

    Froylan Lara

      Hello everybody

      When I did an advance  hole on a part s and then  I do  the drawing , and I try  to dim  the advance hole with  hole callout  command , but  the solidworks  shows  a messages, that the advance hole can't use the hole callout command.

      Anybody can help me?

      Thanks.

        • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
          Matthew Lorono

          Froylan,

           

          Unfortunately, Hole Callout will not create hole callouts for Adv Hole in SW2017.  We did intend to include this functionality, however issues were discovered during Alpha and Beta testing.  Instead of completely pulling this important functionality until annotation functionality is complete, we decided to include feature in the SW2017 release.  This allows users that do not use Hole Callout tool to use the new feature.  For example, our research suggests that Hole Callout tool is typically not used in Europe.   We feel that it is better to provide this new feature without the annotation support rather than not release it at all for one year.

            • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
              David Brukardt

              Matthew,

              We already have processes in place to create advance hole types using other methods.  When we go to SW2017 early next year, I will not introduce the advance hole feature to our users.  I do not want to replace one manual process with another.  From your comments, I will wait until SW2018.

                • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                  Rick McDonald

                  David Brukardt - can you share some of your "other Methods"?

                  I am stuck on 2015 so I can't use the advanced holes but often need to do things like have a tapped hole with a .01 spot face on post ends, a split part with a threaded hole in the bottom section and a C'bore hole above it to act as a clamp...

                  I was really excited to see some of the advanced hole capabilities but really saddened that we aren't going to update for at least a couple more years.

                  I always like to get pointers on things like this to make my life easier.

                    • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                      David Brukardt

                      Rick,

                      Sorry for taking so long to reply; I do not get out to the forums as much as I would like.

                      What we do is really crude; but it is a known process to our users.  For your example of a tap with a spotface.  We might start by putting in the tap, followed by a drill the diameter of the spotface and set the drill angle to 180 degrees.  In the drawing we would use hole callout for both the tap and drill then combine them by using an annotation (see below).

                       

                      I have also experimented with putting the tap in with a countersink.  I then edit the profile sketch making the countersunk angle driven, changing the countersunk diameter to the spotface diameter, add a horizontal and vertical line to make the spotface and finally add a depth dimension.

                       

                      Unfortunately, I have not found a way to get the depth dimension to link to the hole call out so I manually added it (I had the idea of setting the countersunk angle to 0.01 but I could not get it to display to two decimal places).

                       

                        • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                          Rick McDonald

                          David,

                          It sounds like I do the same as you do in the first example.

                          I have tried to also do a tap followed by a C'Bore  with a small diameter less than the tap hole (so it won't show) and the C'Bore large diameter and depth what I need for the Spot face.  Then edit the annotations as you do.

                          I have never tried the C'sink in your example.  Sounds like it will save some instead of creating the separate C'Bore as I do.

                          I will have to try that.

                          Thanks for the input.

                            • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                              Mike Whitehead

                              Why do I read that you put the tap in first then the c'bore? Seems weird and also would lead to a false tap depth.

                              Personally I put the c'bore in first, then the tap. That way, the call-out will read correct...

                              Would anyone want to tap a hole...say 5" deep, then add a 3" deep c'bore after? lol, I think not.

                              BTW, I just used the advanced hole on a couple of parts and the hole call-out didn't work, so that's why I read this. Now I have to go back and delete the advanced holes, very nice swx...very nice. Keep adding non-functioning features while taking away old shortcuts, we love that.

                                • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                  Rick McDonald

                                  Mike,

                                  If you look at the part image that David Brukardt showed, you will see that the C'Bore is very shallow (actually is a "Spot Face").

                                  This image shows the detail very clearly.

                                  This kind of feature is used commonly on the end of a rod or post where a tapped hole was added for attaching the rod to a plate or other surface where the two must join precisely to the rod end.  This spot face is added after the drill and tap operation as a relief (or debur cut) to insure that there is not material left that would have swelled up from the drill and tap operation that would prevent the rod from seating exactly. It is easy to make this spot face on a lathe or CNC instead of manually trying to debur the threaded hole.

                                  This shallow relief insures that only the edges outside of the relief are in contact with the mated part.

                        • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                          Glenn Baker

                          Perhaps I am missing something, but what exactly is "the important functionality" that is included, if you can not dimension the feature (other than the same what you currently dimenion a "non standard hole, which if you use mutilple holes in the same location, it allows you to actually use "hole callout").

                           

                          When can we expect annotation capability?

                          Is it going to be a service pack? 5 years from now? or is this something that is going to die on the vine?

                          The concept is ideal, the execution is severely lacking

                           

                          Regards

                          Hopes waiting to be dashed

                            • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                              Matthew Lorono

                              Dear Hopes waiting to be dashed,

                               

                              See my comments above about the hole callout capability.  Many regions do not use hole callouts, but rather make section views or broken-out sections with linear dimensions when they need to define complex holes.  This is a common practice in Europe.  ISO standards actually don't have any provision for calling out holes more complex than just straight thru.  This might seem a little unusual to North Americans who are used to the ASME methods.  So, when we discovered issues with the hole callouts on Adv Holes during 2017 Beta Testing, we had to really evaluate the core functionality.  Do we pull the entire tool, or do we make it available, and those who can use it will use it?  We decided to include the tool, but not include hole callout support.

                               

                              As far as functionality for hole callouts that supports Adv Holes, of course, we cannot make promises about when functionality will be included in the produce, but we aren't forgetting about this either.  There are still a significant number of users who require hole callouts.  We will use your comments and that of many other customers in our process to help guide us on what enhancements to consider for upcoming releases.

                               

                              Sincerely,

                               

                              Dasher of hopes no more

                                • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                  Glenn Baker

                                  I guess I do not see a tool that makes it more complicated than doing a simple revolve to define a complex hole as a feature.

                                   

                                  The reason I thought this might be a good tool is because trying to call out a hole with complex geometry with one dimension, with a single GD&T seems beneficial (hole callout).

                                   

                                  Otherwise, this seems a convoluted method to make a revolve

                                    • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                      Matthew Lorono

                                      It's a bit more than a revolve.  It has all the sizing you may need, and you can do reordering and several other functions without having to get into a sketch and directly affect relations and such.  It's a big time saver for complex holes.  Instead of having to know what such and such sizes should be or looking them up, you can simply pick the type and size from a list and that element is created for you.  Even with just a countersunk hole, this is going to save you time. 

                                        • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                          Dan Pihlaja

                                          Matthew Lorono wrote:

                                           

                                          It's a bit more than a revolve. It has all the sizing you may need, and you can do reordering and several other functions without having to get into a sketch and directly affect relations and such. It's a big time saver for complex holes. Instead of having to know what such and such sizes should be or looking them up, you can simply pick the type and size from a list and that element is created for you. Even with just a countersunk hole, this is going to save you time.

                                           

                                           

                                          Reordering?  What use is reordering without the hole callout tool?

                                           

                                          When you are putting a hole in, in one feature, what does it matter what the order is?  The only time the order matters is when you are calling it out on the print, and if you can't use the hole callout function....then ordering doesn't matter at all.

                                      • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                        Marcus Dimarco

                                        Maybe they don't use hole callouts in Europe because your hole callouts aren't the proper formatting used in Europe.  Did you ever consider that?  Do you think people like to do manual work because they enjoy it?  Do a little more research and actually talk to people (instead of your secret data gathering methods) to find out what people really think.

                                    • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                      S. Casale

                                      This is wholly disappointing. Why ever would we release something that is only half baked. I'm a firm supporter of SW, but this 2017 is really a bad example of the software.

                                        • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                          Matthew Lorono

                                          We have typically been very cautious of such 'half-baked' enhancements in recent years, as customers have asked us to avoid such a thing.  In this case, it's not half-baked, as there are a substantial number of users that can use the tool as it.  This is more of a case of use not putting the frosting on the cake.  I know many North Americans expect hole callout functionality, and we did take that into consideration when issues where discovered with the hole callout tool and Adv Holes in Beta Testing last year.  We bake this cake and made it available in the frosting-free version first.  Hopefully we can add the frosting soon for us guys in North America who expect it.

                                            • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                              S. Casale

                                              Prefacing this with the statement: With all due respect Matt.

                                               

                                              Cute icing aside. As an admin user who has always stated SW is the best software, I admit I feel that SW is now waning on being comparable to other software programs with instability. I've used many others.

                                               

                                              We upgrade every other year. I'm not convinced, with 2017, that ALL the testing was done for some of the new and old functionality as well as it should have been. This includes the installation software, which really sucks for a lot of users (we were not of this issue, but of an observation of the forums).

                                               

                                              It's not just the advanced hole functionality that I feel is half baked.

                                              • The routing program has become very unstable with complex cables and tied with vault.
                                              • No one seems to want to address the toolbox being as problematic as it is, especially when tied to the vault.
                                              • The fact that 2017 was rolled out for 4K while not working properly (due to scaling issues) until - I think SP2 (don't know as we won't go to SP2 as there are tooo many corruption issues Iv'e seen o the forums). My boss clicks on the SW screen on his 4k monitor and it replicates the graphics.
                                              • SolidWorks Electrical was rolled out some odd time ago. The amount of trouble tickets and troubleshooting my main electrical engineer did with our VAR due to just the set up wizards being err'd, made a quick decision that we weren't using SW Electrical until the information was years beyond beta testing. These are issues he found and had to report...
                                              • The corruption and crashing issues of 2017 SP2 were not even addressed with SP3 according to querying the portal.

                                               

                                                • On a general level, not all feature functionality works on all computers (i.e. we can't link cell values to notes which was a new feature of 2017). Reset my registry to do this or anything else with SW? Why doesn't the installation take care of this adequately. If I were the admin to a large group of users, this would be troubling. So much room for error. I won't reset multiple users registries until I see it in an SP release that this was addressed.
                                                  • The fact that users themselves have to reset the registry to make sure they get full functionality out of the upgrades is puzzling.

                                               

                                              I feel that just like when 3ds/SW/Dass. bought Enovia (which was a beta program that barely worked or was programmed for consistency in the PLM environment - for functional use) and just rolled it out, we are now seeing the myriad of sparkley options that would make the software great but only cause instability.

                                               

                                              These things are not icing -but the fact that it costs a few thousand per seat, topped with subscription requirements.

                                               

                                              Please just make SolidWorks great again?

                                        • Re: SOLIDWORKS 2017 ADVANCE HOLES
                                          David Brukardt

                                          Froylan,

                                          You will be happy to hear that SolidWorks ALMOST has advanced hole call out fixed in SW2018.  There is still an issue using favorites with option 'use baseline dimension' (I have a SPR for it but SW seems to have forgotten about it now that 18 is out of beta) but otherwise it works (my crude workaround is to cut and paste my advanced hole so the callout will be correct in the drawing).